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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 09/08/2010 : 16:00:06 [Permalink]
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More and more is coming out about Jones: the moron is deranged.
Pastor opposed mosque construction in Germany before being forced out
Conservative CNN pundit slams Petraeus for opposing Koran-burning
Terry Jones, the president of the Florida church that's planning to burn Korans on the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, doesn't just have Islam in his sights.
The president of the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida, told a recent legal hearing that his non-denominational church considers "all religions [to be] of the Devil except for Christianity."
CBS News has unearthed a deposition (PDF) from a trial in which Jones, a witness, told lawyers lawyers that he believes Christianity has become "watered down" by modern values, and for this reason it is "time to do something radical."
We would actually consider all religions of the Devil except Christianity," Jones told the hearing.
Part of the testimony reads:
Q. And you believe that everything that is not from god is of the devil. Is that right?
A. Yeah, I guess so. Uh-huh. Then again, it depends on what you're talking about. I don't believe necessarily baseball is from the devil because it's not from god. But I mean, basically in general, I believe that if it's not from god, it's from the devil. Right.
Q. Is Hinduism of the devil?
A. Yes, of course.
Q. Buddhism?
A. Yeah.
Q. How about Judaism?
A. Yes.
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At least he's leaving us atheists alone -- for now.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2010 : 17:02:43 [Permalink]
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If this story "hurts the troops," then why is it a feature on every major news outlet? A Yahoo news article made a great point:| Indeed, so many high-profile people have spoken out against the plan that they may now outnumber the fringe church's 50-member congregation, raising the question of whether the condemnations are magnifying the cause of a very small group of extremists. |
Why did the national media make a such a huge issue out of some Podunk pastor with a congregation that couldn't fill a movie theater? I'm not for one for censorship, and I defend the media's right to publish controversial stories. But when they shine a spotlight on shit-stirring outliers who otherwise wouldn't be noticed by anyone, they bear more than a little of the responsibility for the consequences of that free publicity.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 09/08/2010 17:05:55 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2010 : 17:14:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
If this story "hurts the troops," then why is it a feature on every major news outlet? A Yahoo news article made a great point:| Indeed, so many high-profile people have spoken out against the plan that they may now outnumber the fringe church's 50-member congregation, raising the question of whether the condemnations are magnifying the cause of a very small group of extremists. |
Why did the national media make a such a huge issue out of some Podunk pastor with a congregation that couldn't fill a movie theater? I'm not for one for censorship, and I defend the media's right to publish controversial stories. But when they shine a spotlight on shit-stirring outliers who otherwise wouldn't be noticed by anyone, they bear more than a little of the responsibility for the consequences of that free publicity.
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Because our national media is a collective joke. They exist only to make money, and putting the most ignorant, retarded, redneck piece of shit you can find on TV is what gets ratings. If you get one that is looking for a fistfight, even better (thank you Jerry Springer, I'd blame you, but the "news" would have figured it out eventually anyway).
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2010 : 18:30:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
If this story "hurts the troops," then why is it a feature on every major news outlet? A Yahoo news article made a great point:| Indeed, so many high-profile people have spoken out against the plan that they may now outnumber the fringe church's 50-member congregation, raising the question of whether the condemnations are magnifying the cause of a very small group of extremists. |
Why did the national media make a such a huge issue out of some Podunk pastor with a congregation that couldn't fill a movie theater? I'm not for one for censorship, and I defend the media's right to publish controversial stories. But when they shine a spotlight on shit-stirring outliers who otherwise wouldn't be noticed by anyone, they bear more than a little of the responsibility for the consequences of that free publicity.
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Well... It's news. Jones knows it's news. It's too bad that it's news. But it's news. The bright spot might be that because so many of spoken out against this jerk, it might have taken some of the wind out of his sails. Sure the light is on him, but so are all the protestations from just about every pundit this side of Fox... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2010 : 05:08:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Well... It's news. Jones knows it's news. It's too bad that it's news. But it's news. The bright spot might be that because so many of spoken out against this jerk, it might have taken some of the wind out of his sails. Sure the light is on him, but so are all the protestations from just about every pundit this side of Fox...
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I was wondering about that. How many in the republican leadership have spoken out against the Koran burning. I saw that Haley Barber spoke out against it and someone else, but didn't look much further. Are they keeping quiet about this because they view any increased instability in the middle east as a potential electoral gain? Cynical me suspects this to be true. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
| Edited by - moakley on 09/09/2010 05:10:28 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2010 : 05:43:15 [Permalink]
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Even Sarah Palin is objecting to it. Good for her!
Sarah Palin: Quran burning insensitive and un-American
Editor's Note: Stephen Prothero, a Boston University religion scholar and author of "God is Not One: The Eight Rival Religions that Run the World," is a regular CNN Belief Blog contributor.
By Stephen Prothero, Special to CNN
Yesterday, I called on Christian politicians who had opposed, on the grounds of “sensitivity,” the Islamic community center in Lower Manhattan to denounce the insensitivity of the pastor provocateur Terry Jones, who is planning to burn Qurans at his Gainesville, Florida, church on September 11. I also called out Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich by name.
Today, Sarah Palin, at least, weighed in.
On Twitter, she wrote, “Koran Burning Is Insensitive, Unnecessary; Pastor Jones, Please Stand Down.”
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The article notes that Newt Gingrich is keeping his head down and his gob shut. Good for him as well!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2010 : 06:24:56 [Permalink]
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I suppose Twitter is better than nothing.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2010 : 06:58:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
I suppose Twitter is better than nothing.
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Actually, it is. Palin has a huge Twitter following (mostly teabaggers and other Republicans and hangers-on) and the news organs watch it closely. She can scarcely pass gas without the world knowing all about it. Example: I linked the story from CNN.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2010 : 09:20:54 [Permalink]
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NPR this morning included clips of President Obama talking about this.
By treating Terry Jones as a rational human being, Obama put more troops in danger.
The President should have said that Terry Jones is a radical fringe leader whose congregation is smaller than the White House custodial staff. He should have noted in no uncertain terms that Terry Jones doesn't speak for the nation, or even a majority of the nation, or for even a largish fraction of U.S. combat and support troops. He should have said that he unequivocally supports and will protect everyone's right to protest, but that the choice of what to protest and how is no one's responsibility but the protesters themselves, in this case Terry Jones and his followers.
Instead, Obama basically rolled over, exposed his belly and begged the man to change his mind. It's no wonder to me now why the Democrats have been so ineffectual. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2010 : 10:10:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
NPR this morning included clips of President Obama talking about this.
By treating Terry Jones as a rational human being, Obama put more troops in danger.
The President should have said that Terry Jones is a radical fringe leader whose congregation is smaller than the White House custodial staff. He should have noted in no uncertain terms that Terry Jones doesn't speak for the nation, or even a majority of the nation, or for even a largish fraction of U.S. combat and support troops. He should have said that he unequivocally supports and will protect everyone's right to protest, but that the choice of what to protest and how is no one's responsibility but the protesters themselves, in this case Terry Jones and his followers.
Instead, Obama basically rolled over, exposed his belly and begged the man to change his mind. It's no wonder to me now why the Democrats have been so ineffectual.
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Two things. Jones has indicated that if the pentagon or the Whitehouse were to call him, he might consider standing down.
Another is that apparently, in the county that Jones's church is in has an ordinance against burning anything but logs and twigs. Toxic fumes released from burning print paper is is reason enough for the local fire department to shut them down as soon as they light a match and try to burn books with it. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 09/09/2010 : 11:24:31 [Permalink]
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First Amendment Rights:
Koran Burning, the First Amendment, and the Right to Be a Fucktard:
The First Amendment of the Bill of Rights of the U.S. Constitution allows one, nay, encourages one to be a total fucking douchebag asshole in support of whatever fucktarded cause one and one's yahoo posse want to hoot and holler over. It's that simple. It's that cut and dried. And the reason it encourages such behavior is that judging who is a total fucking douchebag asshole and whose cause is fucktarded is in the eye and ear of the beholder. For, indeed, one could have argued that blacks in the Jim Crow south who were peaceably assembling at lunch counters were the assholes. And one could argue the opposite. Many people considered the Chicago Eight a bunch of unAmerican hippie cocksuckers who deserved only imprisonment, if not exile. One could argue that Gregory Lee Johnson was a complete cunt for burning an American flag outside the Dallas City Hall during the Republican National Convention in 1984. But the Supreme Court said in 1989 that his level of cuntishness didn't matter. What mattered was that it was speech (with even Scalia agreeing). And that as such, go fuck yourself with your precious little hurt feelings. |
Thus far, the moron is holding his ground; he's gonna do it. We've still got a day to go and he might, sensibly, chicken out yet, but I doubt it. He is luxuriating in his 15 minutes of fame and will not give it up 'till every instant of those minutes is worn down to the bone.
And you know who else is right? Fucking Pastor Yosemite Sam himself. Yeah, he's a hateful redneck son of a donkey ass-fucker (more or less). But read what he says on the church's website about why he's burning a Koran:
"In a day and age where ideas are confined to 140 character tweets, the violence of modern films dulls our senses, and the attention of most is on the frivolous dribble of celebrity gossip, sports and weather, we all know how much it takes to grab our attention." Argue if you want as to whether the weather is "frivolous" information, but if he was talking about burning Cheney in effigy, most of us would be cheering him. |
Indeed.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2010 : 12:26:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
I am unwilling to sacrifice my freedom of speech to protect the feelings of anyone. Nor should any of us. There is no such thing as a right to not be offended. If any person, state, or loosely associated group of bronze age religious fundamentalists disagree... then they are diametrically opposed to the most important value we have, and we should not give a rats ass how they will react. If they react with violence, then we defend ourselves in kind.
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I don't understand why you think free speach is being limited? No one is stopping him from doing it. People are putting pressure on him to not do it but the government is not stopping him. Just as the mosque at ground zero, opponents were not forcing them to build it elsewhere, they were trying to pressure them to move it. Everyone is aware of the peoples right to free speech and religion. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2010 : 14:16:56 [Permalink]
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It's all over but the maniacal cackling. I just heard on the news that the moron has smartened up and thrown in the towel -- after a visit from the F.B.I.
But we all had a lot of fun with it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2010 : 14:21:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by Dude
I am unwilling to sacrifice my freedom of speech to protect the feelings of anyone. Nor should any of us. There is no such thing as a right to not be offended. If any person, state, or loosely associated group of bronze age religious fundamentalists disagree... then they are diametrically opposed to the most important value we have, and we should not give a rats ass how they will react. If they react with violence, then we defend ourselves in kind.
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I don't understand why you think free speach is being limited? No one is stopping him from doing it. People are putting pressure on him to not do it but the government is not stopping him. Just as the mosque at ground zero, opponents were not forcing them to build it elsewhere, they were trying to pressure them to move it. Everyone is aware of the peoples right to free speech and religion.
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Because once you surrender a right you never get it back without using force. People calling for him to silence himself should realize their error. If he self censors this time, it will be expected of him the next time he has something unpopular to say or do.
Same for the not-ground-zero mosque. The people calling for it to be moved are just a bunch of stupid assholes (fuck them). No one will say how far it should be moved, or suggest a "better" location. Just don't build it there, it's insensitive! (or, as faux"news" suggested, it will be a terrorist headquarters....) If that group bows to public pressure to move, then it will be expected of muslims everywhere in the US when they are told they should not build here or there.
What is being said is, essentially, we "respect" your right to speech, but we really don't want you to speak. (sarcasm quotes)
The only response to that is a giant "fuck you!" to the people telling you to shut up. Everyone has a right to speak, and even the right to tell people to shut up, but it runs counter to the intent and spirit of free speech if you tell a person you don't agree with to stop speaking. It's only a crime if you are the government telling people to shut up, true, but so what?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2010 : 14:42:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Two things. Jones has indicated that if the pentagon or the Whitehouse were to call him, he might consider standing down. |
Yup. As far as anyone who might be worried about the consequences of burning the Koran may be concerned, Terry Jones holds all the power right now. That's why I think Obama should have thrown him under the bus instead of pleading with him. For those who think there will be consequences, Terry Jones is nothing less than a raving nutjob with his thumb on a detonator. So long as the theoretical consequences (like troops overseas being shot in retaliation) are taken seriously, Terry Jones holds all the cards and gets to make petty demands like the above. There isn't a smiley that appropriately expresses my disgust at this.| Another is that apparently, in the county that Jones's church is in has an ordinance against burning anything but logs and twigs. Toxic fumes released from burning print paper is is reason enough for the local fire department to shut them down as soon as they light a match and try to burn books with it. |
I really don't care an iota whether Terry Jones burns any Korans or not. It's the message that Obama's sending out by giving the lunatic power that's got me all riled up. I don't think "the consequences" will be nearly as horrible as a lot of others seem to think (but I'm also not on the ground in Afghanistan).
Think about it this way: if Terry Jones had announced that he'd made untraceable shipments of explosive-laden "care packages" to 10 random soldiers overseas, and they'd explode when he pressed a big red button in his church, it would have been under 24 hours before some SWAT sniper blew his head off, giving authorities time and opportunity to find and eliminate the "boom" boxes. So, the people claiming that burning the Koran puts our troops in danger obviously don't think it's that much of an immanent threat, or they would have used force to defuse the situation long ago.
Hell, if Terry Jones poses a threat to himself or others, then he ought to be involuntarily committed, just like any other whacko, right? We don't just try to talk such people down, or have firemen give them citations for burning the wrong sort of trash. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Burning the Koran: how stupid is this?
