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podcat
Skeptic Friend
435 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2010 : 23:44:50 [Permalink]
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| Really? Not married? There's no information to support that Jan and Paul Crouch, Sr. are divorced. |
“In a modern...society, everybody has the absolute right to believe whatever they damn well please, but they don't have the same right to be taken seriously”.
-Barry Williams, co-founder, Australian Skeptics |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 01/01/2011 : 08:23:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by podcat
Really? Not married? There's no information to support that Jan and Paul Crouch, Sr. are divorced.
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Well, I really don't care what the Crotch's marriage status is, but I'd heard a few years ago that they were divorced. So, getting curious, I looked around a bit this morning. As near as I can gather, they is and they ain't. Officially, they are still married but it's strictly a business arrangement.
It is rumored, probably with cause, that Paul had a homosexual relationship back in the '90s.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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JerryB
Skeptic Friend
279 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2011 : 09:03:37 [Permalink]
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| They are divorced and have been for years (unless they remarried for the record, I would have no knowledge of that). No, you will not find that on the Web because it is a well hidden secret. I have a very credible friend in the music business who has known them personally for years. |
| Edited by - JerryB on 01/01/2011 09:14:08 |
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Baxter
Skeptic Friend
USA
131 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2011 : 07:26:26 [Permalink]
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| Yeah, Paul and Jan Crouch are mega-charlatans. And then you have Robert Tilton who almost makes an art form out of it. |
"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." ~from Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey
"We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know." ~Robert G. Ingersoll
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2011 : 07:43:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JerryB
They are divorced and have been for years (unless they remarried for the record, I would have no knowledge of that). No, you will not find that on the Web because it is a well hidden secret. I have a very credible friend in the music business who has known them personally for years.
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and here we have the fallacy of the anecdote. You need to provide reference -- perhaps court records would do it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Baxter
Skeptic Friend
USA
131 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2011 : 08:47:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Baxter
Given Ham's belief system, he can probably spread the message of vegan dinos and still have good intentions doing it. |
Ham's professed belief system includes the idea that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
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Ha. Good point. |
"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." ~from Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey
"We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know." ~Robert G. Ingersoll
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JerryB
Skeptic Friend
279 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2011 : 11:07:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Originally posted by JerryB
They are divorced and have been for years (unless they remarried for the record, I would have no knowledge of that). No, you will not find that on the Web because it is a well hidden secret. I have a very credible friend in the music business who has known them personally for years.
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and here we have the fallacy of the anecdote. You need to provide reference -- perhaps court records would do it.
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LOL...I don't care to debate it. Can't you guys ever just have a conversation? I could say good morning to you and you would want a paper on it.... |
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podcat
Skeptic Friend
435 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2011 : 11:30:22 [Permalink]
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You didn't say good morning to you, you made a claim in a skeptic forum that Jan and Paul Crouch, Sr. are divorced and have been for years. All reliable evidence has shown that they are still married, happily or otherwise. You have not provided anything other than something you have heard from a friend. Since there has been more evidence than not, it is proven that Jan and Paul Crouch, Sr. are still married.
Of course, if you don't care to debate this topic, then the fact that they are still married is proven by default. |
“In a modern...society, everybody has the absolute right to believe whatever they damn well please, but they don't have the same right to be taken seriously”.
-Barry Williams, co-founder, Australian Skeptics |
| Edited by - podcat on 01/03/2011 11:30:54 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 01/03/2011 : 12:07:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JerryB
Originally posted by filthy
Originally posted by JerryB
They are divorced and have been for years (unless they remarried for the record, I would have no knowledge of that). No, you will not find that on the Web because it is a well hidden secret. I have a very credible friend in the music business who has known them personally for years.
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and here we have the fallacy of the anecdote. You need to provide reference -- perhaps court records would do it.
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LOL...I don't care to debate it. Can't you guys ever just have a conversation? I could say good morning to you and you would want a paper on it....
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Oh no, would that it could be that simple! We would need to know why you thought the morning was so good, at what time did it ripen into goodness, the degree of goodness as opposed to the badness of other mornings, and when that goodness might end. And insist upon documentation for all of it.
Personally, I think it's all grindingly tedious, but it's what skeptics do and I must comply with the rules of skepticism.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Baxter
Skeptic Friend
USA
131 Posts |
 Posted - 01/03/2011 : 12:36:33 [Permalink]
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| filthy, by the way, what specifically do you think Ken Ham is lying about? Since you said "Lying to the unthinking portion of the public ain't cheap" in your OP. |
"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." ~from Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey
"We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know." ~Robert G. Ingersoll
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Baxter
Skeptic Friend
USA
131 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2011 : 12:43:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by podcat
You didn't say good morning to you, you made a claim in a skeptic forum that Jan and Paul Crouch, Sr. are divorced and have been for years. All reliable evidence has shown that they are still married, happily or otherwise. You have not provided anything other than something you have heard from a friend. Since there has been more evidence than not, it is proven that Jan and Paul Crouch, Sr. are still married.
Of course, if you don't care to debate this topic, then the fact that they are still married is proven by default.
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podcat, listen carefully: Grab stick. Remove from ass.
You'll feel better and think more clearly. |
"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." ~from Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey
"We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know." ~Robert G. Ingersoll
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2011 : 13:38:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JerryB
LOL...I don't care to debate it. Can't you guys ever just have a conversation? I could say good morning to you and you would want a paper on it....
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If it wasn't a good morning, I would claim you were suffering from confirmation bias. 
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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podcat
Skeptic Friend
435 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2011 : 16:50:09 [Permalink]
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| Baxter: believe me, the stick isn't in my ass. |
“In a modern...society, everybody has the absolute right to believe whatever they damn well please, but they don't have the same right to be taken seriously”.
-Barry Williams, co-founder, Australian Skeptics |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2011 : 18:45:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Baxter
filthy, by the way, what specifically do you think Ken Ham is lying about? Since you said "Lying to the unthinking portion of the public ain't cheap" in your OP.
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Ham & AiG lie constantly about the Theory of Evolution. Time was, they were a lot more blatant about it, but after getting their rhetorical ass kicked every time the hung it out in the wind, they became more cautious.
Quote mining is a lie of ommision, is it not. They're still doing that on their site and in their magazine.
You know as well as I that this Ark Expedition project is the commercial perpetuation of a myth, and therefore a lie as well. As is the outrageous Creation "museum." Virtually all of their net income after payroll goes into self promotion and projects. The closest thing to a charitable donation I have seen is contributing to an auction. There might be others but I haven't heard of them.
In brief, Ham's been lying since before he left Oz (I was on AiG's case even back then) and when he left, it was not on the best of terms.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Baxter
Skeptic Friend
USA
131 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2011 : 09:02:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Ham & AiG lie constantly about the Theory of Evolution. Time was, they were a lot more blatant about it, but after getting their rhetorical ass kicked every time the hung it out in the wind, they became more cautious.
Quote mining is a lie of ommision, is it not. They're still doing that on their site and in their magazine.
You know as well as I that this Ark Expedition project is the commercial perpetuation of a myth, and therefore a lie as well. As is the outrageous Creation "museum." Virtually all of their net income after payroll goes into self promotion and projects. The closest thing to a charitable donation I have seen is contributing to an auction. There might be others but I haven't heard of them.
In brief, Ham's been lying since before he left Oz (I was on AiG's case even back then) and when he left, it was not on the best of terms.
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I understand that he is wrong, but "lying" implies a deliberate intent to deceive. I generally don't see sufficient evidence for that, except for some of the quote mining.
He makes false statements about evolution, but if he really thinks it's true then is he lying? I don't think so. Because then we end up accusing everyone of lying whom we don't agree with.
If you define "lying" as simply making statements that aren't true, then the word loses a lot of its meaning. There's a difference in being deluded vs. saying something that you know isn't true. |
"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." ~from Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey
"We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know." ~Robert G. Ingersoll
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Alms for the poor......
