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eddiemiles3
New Member
5 Posts |
 Posted - 02/04/2011 : 00:38:20
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By Eddie Miles
www.theeverydayskeptic.com
With all the talk about atheists being the most distrusted segment of society and with the fact that many of us can’t even come out of the proverbial closet to our own friends and family, it’s easy to forget what we have going for us. In fact, what a lot of non-believers don’t realize is that we really have it made right now. We can make some claims that theists just can’t make… Well, they make the claims but they don’t have the evidence to back them up like we do.
Those claims that I’m talking about are the claims of moral and intellectual superiority. The rate of atheists in prisons is much lower than the rate within the general population. That, coupled with the fact that less religious countries have lower crime rates indicates that contrary to what theists will insist, we atheists take the win in the area of morals. Also, studies show that educated people are less likely to believe in gods or any other superstitions. Obviously then, the less educated are more likely to be religious. Everyday skeptics utilize these claims pretty often, which is why it’s so sad that they will eventually go away.
Wait… what?
Yeah, as much as I love using these little nuggets of uplifting knowledge, they won’t be there and available forever. This is because thanks to activist groups like American Atheists, writers like Dawkins and Myers, and bloggers like… uh… well anyway, thanks to these people, atheism is becoming what we call “popular”. And why is the popularity of atheism such a bad thing? It’s not overall. In fact, I’m thrilled to see it becoming such a hot topic.
But unfortunately, being popular will cause us to be associated with people who call themselves atheists or skeptics just because of its popularity. Think about it, why don’t christians really have the right to claim moral high ground like they think they do? It’s because in the US, christianity is popular, which means that of all the rapists, killers, thiefs, and other baddies, most are going to claim christianity.
Now, a lot of atheists might make the claim that christianity is somehow responsible for this behavior and they point to the evil ways of the old testament god as evidence, and that may be a valid argument for christianity on a larger scale, but given that few christians in the US have even read the bible, I just can’t buy it in this case. It seems to me like what’s really going on is that many people, criminals included, claim to be christians even though they don’t have a damned clue what it really means. The reason they claim to be christians is because christianity is popular.
Now, let’s take a look at the current skeptic movement. We have intellectual giants, like Dennett, and witty, charismatic writers, like Hitchens who lead our movement (if “lead” is even an appropriate term for a movement based on questioning). But I fear that the mostly secular nation that we are all striving for might bring with it some baggage, namely the loss of our ability to claim superiority in morals and intellect. I mean, sure the statistics will still be there, but when the time comes at which half of all criminals just happen to be atheists, the gap will close a bit and the statistical difference will be less significant. Will those who are still in violent opposition to skepticism be able to tell the difference between correlation and causation? If they can’t do it now with Stalin, they won’t be able to do it then, when the nation’s criminals are more likely to be atheists.
I don’t mean to get all apocalyptic. I’m very happy to see the movement grow as it has. It’s just that our metaphorical arms race that we have going on here with the theists might possibly turn in their favor for a bit. We’ll be fine in the long run as long as we stick to the truth. The truth can’t be changed, no matter who believes it. But we might be forced to upgrade our tactics a little bit.
Of course, that’s not to say that I’m going to quit using these arguments just because they’re close to being obsolete. I’m going to run these bitches dry. But there’s definitely something to be said for preparation.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2011 : 07:15:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by eddiemiles3
The rate of atheists in prisons is much lower than the rate within the general population. |
"Much lower" is unsupportable, and a less-grandiose claim may not be, either. Since correlation doesn't equal causation, it could be that many people enter prison as atheists and find religion (or are pressured into it) while inside.| That, coupled with the fact that less religious countries have lower crime rates... |
Research from last year suggests that "life insecurity" prompts more religion, in which case the above should be stated as "countries with lower crime rates are less religious." In other words, the data look like people gain security first, and lose their religion because of that, instead of the other way around.| ...indicates that contrary to what theists will insist, we atheists take the win in the area of morals. |
We "take the win" simply because even though we don't have a book to tell us how to behave well, we do anyway. Every adherent to a morally prescriptive relgion who behaves badly is a failure for that religion, while that isn't true of atheism, since atheism says nothing about how we should or shouldn't behave (and note well that not all atheists are humanists).| Everyday skeptics utilize these claims pretty often, which is why it’s so sad that they will eventually go away. |
Well, two of them should go away right now, because there's no evidence for them.| But unfortunately, being popular will cause us to be associated with people who call themselves atheists or skeptics just because of its popularity. |
Hehehe. There are plenty of people right now who call themselves atheists just because it's shocking or it will annoy their parents. Atheism's unpopularity is alluring to those who style themselves as "non-conformists."| Think about it, why don’t christians really have the right to claim moral high ground like they think they do? |
Because they don't act more moral than any other group (which is why they work so hard to disown Hitler's obvious Christianity). Also, Christianity is really an anti-social religion in which bad acts are forgiven by an invisible agent (which allows the Christian to avoid having to apologize to the real-world people he's hurt) and in which people are taught that this life is just a triviality (these, by the way, are New Testament arguments for Christianity being inherently immoral).| I mean, sure the statistics will still be there, but when the time comes at which half of all criminals just happen to be atheists, the gap will close a bit and the statistical difference will be less significant. |
If (and it's a big 'if') there is ever solid evidence of a large statistical difference caused by atheists really behaving better than theists, then it will remain even when atheists gain a majority in this country, until the day that religion is driven into the closet (the one in which so many atheists are hiding these days).
Long before then, though, if the U.S. retains its high proportion of fundamentalism among the religious, we'll have to deal with more and more tales of Christian persecution. "The atheist cop arrested me because of my religion," for example. And atheist judges will have to deal with demands that they recuse themselves from such cases. The claim will be made that theists are over-represented in prison populations only because atheists set them up. Or because atheists let other atheists get away with murder.| Will those who are still in violent opposition to skepticism be able to tell the difference between correlation and causation? |
There are plenty of atheists who can't. "Atheist" does not equal "skeptic," which also doesn't equal "someone who never mistakes correlation for causation."| Of course, that’s not to say that I’m going to quit using these arguments just because they’re close to being obsolete. I’m going to run these bitches dry. |
Well, please stop using the ones that are wrong, right now. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2011 : 07:33:08 [Permalink]
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originally posted by eddiemiles3
I don’t mean to get all apocalyptic. I’m very happy to see the movement grow as it has. It’s just that our metaphorical arms race that we have going on here with the theists might possibly turn in their favor for a bit. We’ll be fine in the long run as long as we stick to the truth. The truth can’t be changed, no matter who believes it. But we might be forced to upgrade our tactics a little bit.
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Here is what we can do Eddie. When we find our fellow atheists talking nonsense we can call them on it and discuss better ways of reasoning. Education is the only solution. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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eddiemiles3
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2011 : 11:47:27 [Permalink]
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@ Dave
You may be correct about the lack of evidence for the prison example. I'll have to look into that. I did make it a point to mention, though, that I don't see it as religion causing people to be criminals.
Yes, there are people who call themselves atheists for the sake of non-conformity. I used to be one of those people. They are a rare breed, though, once you look past the age of 18 or so. What's not so rare is a christian who is so simply because he/she was taught that way and never thought to question it. My point was that once atheism reaches a certain point, there will likewise be many people who are raised as atheists and never think to question it.
You mentioned dealing with more tales of christian persecution (I'm new to forums and don't yet know how to quote). That's exactly the point that I was making, just with more words ;)
The overall message that I was intending to convey is that these incidences of christian persecution will come up more often as the popularity of atheism rises, and since many people (atheist and theist alike) can't distinguish between correlation and causation, it will be more difficult to defend our morality.
Of course, better ways of wording things always come up after the article is written. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2011 : 19:17:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by eddiemiles3
(I'm new to forums and don't yet know how to quote). |
Start with the "Reply with Quote" button above each individual post or comment: For putting anything in a quote box, put the "tags" [quote] and [/quote] around the text. There are plenty of other formatting tags, listed in our FAQ.| The overall message that I was intending to convey is that these incidences of christian persecution will come up more often as the popularity of atheism rises, and since many people (atheist and theist alike) can't distinguish between correlation and causation, it will be more difficult to defend our morality. |
I'm actually thinking the persecution claims will only increase if fundamentalism increases as a proportion of the theists in general (as their numbers wane). We've got a societal petri dish over in Europe, and even though the non-religious may have a slim majority in England (for example), they're not facing tons of persecution cries. Of course, England has never been awash in fundamentalist protestantism. Anglicans seem to be a lot more laid back than our wonderful Bible-thumpers.| Of course, better ways of wording things always come up after the article is written. |
Yeah, that's why I edit five or six times, and then another dozen times, and it still comes out screwy. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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On the future of the skeptic movement
