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changingmyself
Skeptic Friend
USA
122 Posts |
 Posted - 05/23/2011 : 13:39:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by marfknox
...I look forward to reviewing all the presented evidence and discussion tomorrow night. |
Please wait for a bit, we are undertaking a re-start.| So glad I came back to SFN. |
I'm glad you did, too.
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Dave, did you get my conditions? I sent them through personal message on here instead of through email. |
"The gospels are not eyewitness accounts"
-Allen D. Callahan, Associate Professor of New Testament, Harvard Divinity School
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changingmyself
Skeptic Friend
USA
122 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 14:02:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Originally posted by teched246
Originally posted by Baxter
So to resolve this dispute, someone is posting uncontested evidence for pagan Christology on a skeptical forum? Am I missing something?
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Debating comes with a such childish disposition. The goal of either side of one is merely to "defeat" the other, and often this stifles any real opportunity at genuine understanding. Consider this an experiment -- we've provided info and knowledge backed by credible sources...people just have to go with what feels right. The winning isn't even important to me, personally. I would just like to see how other react to Truth when it's presented so forthright.
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There are so many problems with this statement.... Debates serve a purpose, to provide a platform for conflicting opinions. There is no real place for debate in matters of true/false. Debates are for deciding how to spend tax money, for example. Not for determining the truth value of a claim. When you are explaining to another person why they are wrong (like I'm doing now) it isn't a debate.
Then... "go with what feels right"... Well, no. You go with what feels right when picking out the decorations for your wedding cake, not for determining truth values.
And capital T Truth. Really? Truth is so hard to even define... While I agree that there are plenty of things we can assign conclusive true/false values, I have a problem with the implications of "Truth".
@changingmyself- When you post, I beg you to not randomly capitalize words. It makes reading your posts difficult, random words in all caps pull the eye away from other words, and it doesn't really add emphasis. People will understand you better if you stick with established grammatical conventions.
That said, I'm definitely interested in what you guys/gals/whatevers have to say. Work with Dave_W and Kil to set up the "rules" of this exchange and I think most people here will probably be interested as well.
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Debates should serve a purpose but when beliefs get in the way of common sense and reason, the debate escalates to a fight. Which is another reason I did not want david to respond until the evidence was posted, then he could respond with counter evidence and then I respond to his evidence.
Sorry about random capitalization, I will try not to do that.
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"The gospels are not eyewitness accounts"
-Allen D. Callahan, Associate Professor of New Testament, Harvard Divinity School
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 15:00:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by changingmyself
Dave, did you get my conditions? I sent them through personal message on here instead of through email. |
Yes, and an email from KingDavid8, too. I'm in the process of writing a reply for both of you. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 16:04:14 [Permalink]
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| So should I bother reading the second thread "THE ZG EVIDENCE", or should I wait until this reboot thing happens? I notice from skimming that that thread so far is mostly just changingmyself posting evidence and no discussion yet, so is it all going to be somehow better organized? I just don't want to waste my time. But I'm looking forward to some interesting reads and debating! |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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teched246
Skeptic Friend
123 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 16:35:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
So should I bother reading the second thread "THE ZG EVIDENCE",
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YES  I'd skip page 2 though...it's just kingdavid and hercules going back and forth with insults. |
"For all things have been baptized in the well of eternity and are beyond good
and evil; and good and evil themselves are but intervening shadows and damp
depressions and drifting clouds.Verily, it is a blessing and not a blasphemy
when I teach: ‘Over all things stand the heaven Accident, the heaven
Innocence, the heaven Chance, the heaven Prankishness." -Nietzsche |
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KingDavid8
Skeptic Friend
USA
212 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 18:28:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Baxter
So to resolve this dispute, someone is posting uncontested evidence for pagan Christology on a skeptical forum? Am I missing something?
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Uncontested? As far as I've seen, every skeptic website that's taken a look at Zeitgeist has agreed that it's a load of bull. And, yes, I'm talking about the irreligious websites like skeptic.com, webskeptic and Conspiracy Science, all of which have articles debunking it. I have yet to hear of any skeptic website that's agreed with its claims. This stuff just does not stand up to the slightest scrutiny. |
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changingmyself
Skeptic Friend
USA
122 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 18:57:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
So should I bother reading the second thread "THE ZG EVIDENCE", or should I wait until this reboot thing happens? I notice from skimming that that thread so far is mostly just changingmyself posting evidence and no discussion yet, so is it all going to be somehow better organized? I just don't want to waste my time. But I'm looking forward to some interesting reads and debating!
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That was supposed to be how it is. He said that there is no evidence for it and I said I would post the evidence for it, he wanted me to write it all out but if I have to do that then I might as well write a book. lol |
"The gospels are not eyewitness accounts"
-Allen D. Callahan, Associate Professor of New Testament, Harvard Divinity School
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Hercules
New Member
35 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 20:12:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by teched246
Originally posted by marfknox
So should I bother reading the second thread "THE ZG EVIDENCE |
YES I'd skip page 2 though...it's just kingdavid and hercules going back and forth with insults. |
I do resent that. Pointing out the FACT that kingdavid has absolutely no relevant formal training, qualifications, credentials or any linguistic skills is not any sort of "personal attack" or "insult." It is just the facts and those facts mean that Kingdavid is simply not qualified to make any determinations on what is or isn't credible evidence on these issues. It's that simple. He's been attacking what he calls "Christ-Mythers" for 8 years since he's had his website, meanwhile, kingdavid, still to this very day, has not read one single book by those "Christ-Mythers" his website rants against.
He's also a biased Christian ... again, just another factiod not an attack or insult. For 8 years Kingdavid has been making the decisions on what is or isn't credible evidence on his website when he has absolutely no qualifications whatsoever to make any such judgement calls. This allows him to deny and dismiss whatever he wants whenever it's convenient for him. What part of all this do people here not understand?
I thought people here would just like to know who they're actually dealing with. |
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KingDavid8
Skeptic Friend
USA
212 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 20:18:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Hercules
Originally posted by teched246
Originally posted by marfknox
So should I bother reading the second thread "THE ZG EVIDENCE |
YES I'd skip page 2 though...it's just kingdavid and hercules going back and forth with insults. |
I do resent that. Pointing out the FACT that kingdavid has absolutely no relevant formal training, qualifications, credentials or any linguistic skills is not any sort of "personal attack" or "insult." It is just the facts and those facts mean that Kingdavid is simply not qualified to make any determinations on what is or isn't credible evidence on these issues. It's that simple. He's been attacking what he calls "Christ-Mythers" for 8 years since he's had his website, meanwhile, kingdavid, still to this very day, has not read one single book by those "Christ-Mythers" his website rants against.
He's also a biased Christian ... again, just another factiod not an attack or insult. For 8 years Kingdavid has been making the decisions on what is or isn't credible evidence on his website when he has absolutely no qualifications whatsoever to make any such judgement calls. This allows him to deny and dismiss whatever he wants whenever it's convenient for him. What part of all this do people here not understand?
I thought people here would just like to know who they're actually dealing with.
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Way to prove 'em wrong, Herc. |
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Hercules
New Member
35 Posts |
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KingDavid8
Skeptic Friend
USA
212 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 20:36:07 [Permalink]
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Herc,
Do you have anything from a website NOT associated with Acharya S, who makes a living off of this stuff? Like I said, any website that's taken a skeptical look at it has confirmed that Zeitgeist's claims are false. The fact that Acharya S (the primary source behind Zeitgeist) and her websites try to claim otherwise is hardly surprising. She is not going to take a skeptical look at her own bull. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 22:01:14 [Permalink]
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Hercules:
...This allows him to deny and dismiss whatever he wants whenever it's convenient for him. What part of all this do people here not understand? |
Why do you assume that we can't set up a debate and keep it honest? This is probably the oldest skeptic forum on the internet. We didn't just fall off the back of a turnip truck. If it pisses you off that we are allowing the debate, tough. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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teched246
Skeptic Friend
123 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 02:32:13 [Permalink]
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Herc, don't take offense. It's just that the evidence thread was supposed to be for evidence only. Although, what you posted was factual, Change and I would've been done with this ages ago were it not for the exchanges between you and Kingdavid on the evidence thread.
As for you kingdavid...now wouldn't really be a good time to start playing Mr. Confident. Not only have you removed the 1000$ from you challenge (you know the one that you've boasted about on your website about how no one has the proof and if they did they would go after the money -- just a prop) I also noticed how unsettled you became as soon as those images went up...couldn't let freethinking people make up thier own minds without adding your own dodgy apologetics could you? |
"For all things have been baptized in the well of eternity and are beyond good
and evil; and good and evil themselves are but intervening shadows and damp
depressions and drifting clouds.Verily, it is a blessing and not a blasphemy
when I teach: ‘Over all things stand the heaven Accident, the heaven
Innocence, the heaven Chance, the heaven Prankishness." -Nietzsche |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 02:55:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Hercules
This allows him to deny and dismiss whatever he wants whenever it's convenient for him. What part of all this do people here not understand? |
Who are these "people here"? I see you ranting, and it looks to me like you're implying that it is SFNers.
If you felt insulted by tched246, then consider that it might be well deserved.
I thought people here would just like to know who they're actually dealing with.
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As if we were incapable of figuring this out by ourselves? You don't have to nag nag nag about what you think. Everyone who have read this thread, and the other one, knows what you think. Do we need to acknowledge every piece of factoid you post, like children, so you know we got your message (and presumably agree with you)?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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teched246
Skeptic Friend
123 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 03:06:55 [Permalink]
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Speaking of which, is the 1000$ back on the line, since we are going to be *debating* n'all? If not, why does kingdavid still have the challenge on his website? I could'nt care less about the chump change, but if he's going to prop up his challenge on his website, boasting that no one's going for the free cash, let him put his money where his mouth is.
I gotta to hand it to you though Kingdavid. Once you saw what was being posted you took immediate action, stomping your feet about what you feel is or isn't evidence (even though you had agreed to butt out and let others decide) all from the comfort of not having to pay out 1000$ should you lose...until finally, with enough pouting you've gotten your way. Congrats |
"For all things have been baptized in the well of eternity and are beyond good
and evil; and good and evil themselves are but intervening shadows and damp
depressions and drifting clouds.Verily, it is a blessing and not a blasphemy
when I teach: ‘Over all things stand the heaven Accident, the heaven
Innocence, the heaven Chance, the heaven Prankishness." -Nietzsche |
| Edited by - teched246 on 05/24/2011 03:21:59 |
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Evidence for Zeitgeist’s claims?
