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changingmyself
Skeptic Friend
USA
122 Posts |
 Posted - 05/21/2011 : 17:25:28 [Permalink]
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Attis Pre-Christian?
The goddess Eostre
April 24, 2011 by Bill
"Other resurrected gods of that period before Jesus were Attis and Mithra, sacrificed at the Spring equinox, and then rising and ascending to heaven. Other gods of that period who were eaten in the form of bread or wafers included Adonis and Dionysus, among many others, especially the Egyptian Osiris, whom the Egyptians called “the good shepherd,” “the Lord of Lords,” the King of Kings,” “the resurrection and the life.” Osiris was only one of many god-men who suffered, died, rose again and lived eternally in heaven. Human beings believed in resurrection and eternal life after death at least 150,000 years before Jesus was ever born. This sharing of iconic stories is called “mythological diffusion.”
source
"Bill Edelen Oklahoma State University where he received the Bachelor of Science degree in Horticulture and Biology. He then entered McCormick Theological Seminary (on the campus of the University of Chicago) where he received his Masters degree in Theology.
Two years graduate studies in anthropology, University of Colorado.
Lecturer of religion and anthropology, University of Puget Sound, Tacoma, Washington
Special studies with Joseph Campbell, whom the New York Times called “The pre-eminent scholar in Comparative Religions and Mythology.”
Active ordained Presbyterian and Congregational minister, 30 years"
The historical Jesus: five views By James K. Beilby, Paul R. Eddy Page 75
"There is also pre-Christian evidence for the resurrection of Attis, Adonis and Demunzi/Tammuz."
James K. Beilby is a Christian philosopher at Bethel University (now assistant professor of biblical and theological studies)
Attis, between myth and history: king, priest, and God By Maria Grazia Lancellotti page 84
"Further important archeological evidence for the cult of Attis and particularly for the festival cycle is provided from the Campus Matris Magnae at Ostia, where there is an attideum that may be dated to the period of Antoninus."
Maria Grazia Lancellotti, Ph.D. in History of Religions (University of Roma "La Sapienza") was awarded with the R. Pettazzoni Scholarship.
Antonininus
Attis:
13. Born of a virgin
Attis, between myth and history: king, priest, and God By Maria Grazia Lancellotti
Page 89 "The birth of Attis from an almost or a pomegranate fruit refers, as already dated, to the theme of the miraculous birth used in several mythological tales about heros. In this cause, one has to add the requirements that Attis must be born without a father and without sexual intercourse."
Page 94 "Pomegranate tree>fruit that impregnates Nana...(without direct sexual intercourse]"
Maria Grazia Lancellotti, Ph.D. in History of Religions (University of Roma "La Sapienza") was awarded with the R. Pettazzoni Scholarship.
Thank God for evolution: how the marriage of science and religion will ... By Michael Dowd Page 363
A Whole list of virgin mothers..."Nana virgin mother of Attis"
Dowd, raised Roman Catholic, graduated from Evangel University in Springfield, Missouri summa cum laude receiving a B.A. in philosophy and biblical studies. He went on to earn a Master of Divinity degree with honors at Eastern Baptist Theological Seminary (now Palmer Seminary) in Philadelphia. Dowd was ordained as a United Church of Christ minister and served as a congregational minister for nine years in churches in Massachusetts, Ohio, and Michigan.
14. Born on Dec 25th
Jesus Didn't Exist! the Bible Tells Me So By Derek Murphy Page 20
"Attis was born of the virgin Nana on December 25th"
Author Derek Murphy, studied theology and has a PhD in Comparative Literature
They Like Jesus But Not the Church Participant's Guide: Six Sessions ... By Dan Kimball, Margaret Feinberg Page 133
"And it is true that the date of our Christmas, December 25, was the birthday for pagan gods throughout time-Attis, Mithras, Dionysus
and Osiris."
Kimball is a graduate of Multnomah Biblical Seminary and Western Seminary. He is currently pursuing a Doctor of Ministry degree at George Fox Evangelical Seminary
15. Crucified
Early and medieval Christianity
By Roland Herbert Bainton
"March 25 could have been calculated as the mean date for Nisan 14 and could have been taken from the resurrection of Attis."
Roland received an A.B. degree from Whitman College, and B.D. and Ph.D.. degrees from Yale University.
He also received a number of honorary degrees including a D.D.
from Meadville Theological Seminary and from Oberlin College,
Dr. Theologiae from the University of Marburg, Germany, and Litt.D. from Gettysburg College.
A specialist in Reformation history, Bainton was for forty-two years Titus Street Professor of
ecclesiastical history at [Yale, and he continued his writing well into his twenty years of
retirement.
A Wish Can Change Your Life: How to Use the Ancient Wisdom of ... - Page 137
Gahl Sasson, Steve Weinstein
"The Phrygian savior-god Attis crucified himself on a pine tree on the spring equinox — the first day of the Mars-governed sign of Aries."
Sasson teaches Kabbalah, mythology, and astrology at the University of Judaism in Los Angeles, Tel Aviv University in Israel
Everything About the Bible That You Never Had Time to Look Up By W. Milton Timmons Page 95
"{this might reflect the Hellenistic heritage of the author, since the Greek god Attic was crucified
on a tree.]"
Education
Apostle of the crucified Lord: a theological introduction to Paul and his ... By Michael J. Gorman
"Priests of the cult, who were self castrated to identify with Cybele's son and lover Attis (who after being cut up was reconstituted by Cybele but without his genitalia),..."
also performed frenzied, masochistic rituals accompanited by flutes and tambourines. Initiates, placed in a pit, were washed in the blood of the bull as it was being sacrificed."
Dr. Michael J. Gorman is Dean of the Ecumenical Institute of Theology at St. Mary's Seminary & University in Baltimore,
With a Ph.D. in Mass Communications from the University of Southern California and a teaching career spanning thirty years, Professor Timmons has conducted courses in virtually every aspect of Speech, Drama, Radio-TV-Film, Journalism, and Advertising.
16. Dead for 3 days
17. Resurrected
A dictionary of religion and ethics edited by Shailer Mathews, Gerald Birney Smith
Page 301 "The death and resurrection of Attis were celebrated every spring with dramatic ceremonies in which the
deceased god was represented as a pine tree clad as a corpse."
Shailer Mathews a Christian theologian, Professor of Historical and Comparative Theology and dean of the Divinity School of the University of Chicago
The mystery-religions: a study in the religious background of early Christianity By Samuel Angus Page 60
"The Next night the Resurrection of Attis was celebrated by the opening of a grave."
Samuel Angus (August 27, 1881 – November 1943) was professor of New Testament and Church History at St Andrew's College in the University of Sydney from 1915 to 1943
Attis, between myth and history: king, priest, and God By Maria Grazia Lancellotti Page 142
The idea that the "resurrection" of Attis was due to a "devilish counterfeit" certainly proves how, in the eyes
of one Christain, but also in those of a "pagan" inclined to lay claim to the meaning of his own beliefs, Attis must
have seemed dangerously similar to Jesus Christ"
Edited to add things. |
"The gospels are not eyewitness accounts"
-Allen D. Callahan, Associate Professor of New Testament, Harvard Divinity School
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| Edited by - changingmyself on 05/22/2011 08:59:27 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2011 : 05:16:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by teched246
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
KingDavid8 and Hercules,
Also, members of SFN aren't stupid. Don't treat us as such, I find it offensive.
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I do apologize for my condescending demeanor on the other thread about us bringing this topic to this website. |
No need for you to apologise. I was reacting to KingDavid8's and Hercules' attitudes which reminds me of parents arguing he-said-she-said in front of their child. And the double-posting. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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changingmyself
Skeptic Friend
USA
122 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2011 : 10:20:31 [Permalink]
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Krishna:
Pre-Christian?
The Development Of Hinduism By M.M.Ninan page 129
"Vishnu Purana:
This work contains the geneology of the Gupta kings, and therefore could not have eben finalized before 320 AD Hazra is positive the
date of this Purana is between 275 and 325 AD..."
Professor of Theoretical Physics
Megasthenes and Indian Religion By Allan Dahlaquist Page 92
"We have already had occasion to point out that we are unable to date the Puranas with any degree of certainty.
Indian literature was originally extant durgin centuries of oral tradition, during with time it was
altered and edited in many ways, before being written down at a much later date; for this reason it is as
well, when considering the question of dates, not to rely too much on its antiquity."
"Dikshitar, in his Purana Index, attempts to date the five Puranas which form his material, The Vishnu
Purana he dates, on what appear to be dubius grounds, to 600-300 BC; this fits in with Lassen's view."
Note: I am adding Dikshitars background because I cannot get to his book through any sources but quoted from his book
Vishnampet R. Ramachandra Dikshitar was a professor of history and archaeology in the University of Madras, earned his bachelor of arts in history with distinction from St. Joseph's College, Tiruchirapalli in 1920. He completed his master's in history in 1923 along with a diploma in economics and obtained his PhD from Madras University in 1927
18. Born of a virgin
VISHNU PURANA BOOK V CHAPTER 2:
"The nurse of the universe, Jagaddhatri, thus enjoined by the god of gods, CONVEYED SIX SEVERAL EMBRYOS into the womb of Devaki, and the SEVENTH ONE, after a season into Rohini's womb."
According to the Srimad Bhagavatam, Vishnu chose Devaki and Vasudeva because they lived the most non-sensual, austere lives. It states that they endured aeons of "TAPASYA" or "MORTIFICATION" (no sex or material enjoyments -- extreme self-discipline). Furthermore, the reason they could not give birth to Krishna in thier PAST LIVES was due to having sex just once (gramya-dharma or gramya-bhogan). Instead, they gave birth to Pris'nigarbha (an incomplete Krishna)
Book V Chapter 2
Horace Hayman Wilson was an English orientalist.
Thank God for Evolution: How the Marriage of Science and Religion Will ... By Michael Dowd
"Devaki, virgin mother of Krishna (born on December 25)"
Dowd, raised Roman Catholic, graduated from Evangel University in Springfield, Missouri summa cum laude receiving a B.A. in philosophy and biblical studies. He went on to earn a Master of Divinity degree with honors at Eastern Baptist Theological Seminary (now Palmer Seminary) in Philadelphia.
African presence in early Asia, Volume 7, Issue 1 By Ivan Van Sertima, Runoko Rashidi Page 109
"Krishna was the son of the Virgin Devaki"
Dr. Ivan Van Sertima was educated at the School of Oriental and African Studies (London University) and the Rutgers Graduate School and holds degrees in African Studies and Anthropology"
The Rozabal Line By Shawn Haigins
"The blessed virgin, Devaki, was about to deliver a baby boy; Krishna was to be his name. His birth had been heralded
by the astral formation of a Rohini Nakshatra, a most auspicious astrological sequence...".
The name “Shawn Haigins” is a pseudonym. In fact, it's an anagram of the author’s real name, "Ashwin Sanghi".
Ashwin holds a master’s degree from Yale and lives in India with his wife and son. He's also pursuing a doctorate in Creative Writing.
19. Star in the East
World's Saviors By Charles H. Vail Page 30
"Krishna had his star, which the prophet Narada examined upon visiting him..."
Vail enrolled in the Theological School of St. Lawrence University at Canton, New York. He graduated in 1892 with a Bachelor of Divinity degree, but remained through 1893 to take a graduate course
Islamic reformism and Christianity: a critical reading of the works of ... By Umar Ryad Page 60
"Comparing Jesus to Krishna..."
Dr. U. Ryad
Umar Ryad is currently assistant professor of the study of Islam in the modern world. He studied at the Faculty of Languages and Translation, Al-Azhar University in Cairo (1998, BA Islamic Studies in English), and got his MA degree in Islamic Studies (Cum Laude) from the University of Leiden in 2001. In 2003-2006 he has been affiliated as assistant-in-training at the Leiden Institute for the Study of Religions. Since September 2006 he has been working as a lecturer within the section of Islamic Theology. His PhD dissertation (‘Islamic Reformism and Christianity: A Critical Study of the Works of Muhammad Rashid Rida and his Associates (1898-1935)..."
20. Performed miracles
The Oxford companion to world mythology By David Adams Leeming Page 232
As a very young child, Krishna performs miracluous *initiatory feats and defeats *demons (*Asuaras)
On one occasion, when his adopted mother looks into his mouth, she is astounded to see the whole
universe there.
Another story from Krishna's youth is that of the struggle with the serpent monster Kaliya....Kaliya attacked
Krishna with his might, wrapping his horrible coils around him. Krishna appeared to have been utterly
defeated by the serpent. The gopis and their herds were miserable in their greif, thinking that their lord,
to whom they had dedicated their lives and possessions, was dead....
So it was that Lord Krishna overcame the evil that was Kaliya."
Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Lao Tzu: The Parallel Sayings By Richard Hooper Page 38
Lists of Parallel sayings of the four aformentioned gods
Richard Hooper is a former Lutheran pastor who received his Bachelor’s degree in religion and philosophy from San Francisco State University in 1966,
and his Master of Divinity from Berkeley’s Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary in 1970. He was subsequently ordained by The American Lutheran Church (ALC) in 1972.
21. Resurrected
Christianity was not influenced by paganism
A review and response to claims that Christianity was influenced by paganism and other religions.
By G.R. Konig
Krishna brought back to life
"As for the crucifixion and resurrection, it is true that the Mahabharata says that Krishna, who is alternately referred to as Keshava, is killed and that he returns to life,
but he was not crucified. Instead, he receives a mortal injury to the heel while meditating in the forest:"
"A fierce hunter of the name of Jara then came there, desirous of deer. The hunter, mistaking Keshava, who was stretched on the earth in high Yoga,
for a deer, pierced him at the heel with a shaft and quickly came to that spot for capturing his prey." - Mahabharata, Book 16, Section 4.
Bhagavad Gita, 10.20; Campbell, 315
"As Vishnu, Krishna is the second person of the TRINITY, he is considered the "Beginning, the Middle and the End," ("Alpha and Omega"), as well as being omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent."
Bhagavad Gita: A New Translation By Stephen Mitchell
Beginning
Bhagavad Gita: A New Translation By Stephen Mitchell
Page pr numbered II
"No one knows when it was written; some scholars date it as yearly as the fifth century BCE others as late as the first century CE. But there is a general scholarly concensus that in its original form it wasan independent poem, which was later inserted into its present context, Book Six of India's national epic, the Mahabharata."
Stephen Mitchell was educated at Amherst College, the University of Paris, and Yale University.
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"The gospels are not eyewitness accounts"
-Allen D. Callahan, Associate Professor of New Testament, Harvard Divinity School
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| Edited by - changingmyself on 05/23/2011 06:27:49 |
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teched246
Skeptic Friend
123 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 03:37:45 [Permalink]
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KRISHNA: HUNTED BY A KING
Upon hearing a prophecy that one of Devaki's children would kill him, Kamsa, the then king of the Vrishni kingdom, slaughters nearly all of Devaki's children in a hunt for krishna.[Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 10 Chapter 3 Verse 22] http://srimadbhagavatam.org/canto10/chapter3.html . To protect baby Krishna from Kamsa, Devaki and Vasudeva send him into hiding at a cowherd village, where he is raised by Nanda and Yasoda [Verse 51].
This story most obviously mirrors jesus' birth narrative, in which the wrathful King Herod, upon hearing a prophecy that jesus would be born and usurp the throne, hunts baby jesus slaughtering many infants in the process.
KRISHNA: VIRGIN MOTHER
Changingmyself has already shown that none of krishna's siblings were concieved through sex. As for Krishna himself, he was concieved through mental transmission: "Thereafter accompanied by plenary expansions, the fully opulent Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna, was TRANSFERRED FROM THE MIND OF VASUDEVA TO THE MIND OF DEVAKI. Devaki having thus been initiated by Vasudeva became beautiful by carrying Lord Krishna within the core of her heart and womb."
[Srimad Bhagavatam Canto Chapter 2 Verse 18] http://srimadbhagavatam.org/canto10/chapter2.html
KRISHNA: STAR IN THE EAST
In the Srimad Bhyagavatam Canto 10 Chapter 3 "The Birth of Krishna" the very first line reads: "Then there was the supreme hour all-auspicious and most suitable with the ROHINI CONSTELLATION rising and all the stars in a FAVORABLE POSITION."
Rohini's corresponding star -- her nakshatra -- is Aldebaran(in hindu astronomy constellations are identified by thier nakshatras). Aldebaran is the next star in Sirius' alignment with Orion's Belt. There's even a astrotheology for this myth in the Rig Veda (1700BC) See Here: http://www.suite101.com/content/india-constellation-orion-myths-a26806 . It goes: Rohini's father, Prajapati (Orion), had an incestuous affair with her. When the order was given to execute him for this, Sirius (the Archer) shoots him with an arrow. The three stars on Orion's Belt represent the arrow with which he was shot.
KRISHNA: RESURRECTION AND ASCENSION INTO HEAVEN
Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 11 Chapter 30 Ascension of Lord Krishna Verses 5-7 http://srimadbhagavatam.org/canto11/chapter31.html
"Krishna seeing the great father (Vishnu) and his powerful expansions before Him, fixed His consciousness within Himself, the Almighty One, and closed His lotus eyes. (6) Without burning in a mystic trance the object auspicious to all trance and meditation, viz. His BODY that is most attractive in all the worlds, He entered His own abode. And while in heaven kettledrums resounded and flowers fell from the sky, He was, as He left the earth, followed by Truth, Righteousness, Constancy, Fame and Beauty"
As you can see Krishna, still in his body, departs the earth for heaven for all eyes to see.
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"For all things have been baptized in the well of eternity and are beyond good
and evil; and good and evil themselves are but intervening shadows and damp
depressions and drifting clouds.Verily, it is a blessing and not a blasphemy
when I teach: ‘Over all things stand the heaven Accident, the heaven
Innocence, the heaven Chance, the heaven Prankishness." -Nietzsche |
| Edited by - teched246 on 05/23/2011 05:42:21 |
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teched246
Skeptic Friend
123 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 05:11:48 [Permalink]
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ATTIS: VIRGIN MOTHER
1. Attis' mother, Nana, is named after a slew of sumerian VIRGIN GODDESSES. According to Proberts Encyclopedia, "In Sumerian mythology, Nana was a virgin mother goddess of the spirit of vegetation and fertility, a beloved consort of kings. [See Here: http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/browse/D8.HTM ] scroll down to Nana. By the way, as we are on the subject, it should be noted that both Virgo, the Virgin, and Isis were also goddesses of Harvest and Vegetation. In fact, the Book of the Dead clearly refers to isis with the same titles as Virgo: "Isis...The Lady of Bread (wheat), the Lady of Green Crops, the Lady of Abundance" ( http://www.sacredtempleofra.net/isis---invoking-and-rituals.php )
A mythical#65279; fragment in a hymn cycle to another sumerian goddess, Inana... (note: MAIDEN means VIRGIN. Oh and even kingdavid admits that Inana was a virgin on his page here: http://kingdavid8.com/Copycat/JesusInanna.html )
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sitchin/reinosperdidos/reinosperdidos11a.htm
Verses 10-22 " My lady, on your aquiring the stature of Heaven, MAIDEN (VIRGIN) Inana."
Verses 23-24 "I shall praise the lady of battle, the great child of Suen, MAIDEN (VIRGIN) Inana."
2. Attis' mother, Nana, concieves him without sex. She lays an almond on her chest and it disappears into her body, impregnating her [Hermesniax 330 BC].
We simply must ask ourselves what the odds are that Attis' mother is named after virgin goddesses, and just so happens to concieve her deity son without sex.(?)
ATTIS: 3 DAY DEATH AND RESURRECTION
Mimicking the Osirian tradition of Passion Plays [see earlier posts on osiris - horus' 3 day death), Attis' death and resurrection are mourned and celebrated in week long festival known as "Hilaria". It began on EASTER -- easter on ancient calendars -- and lasted for 7 days. On the first day of the festival, attis' death is mourned and commemorated. 3 DAYS LATER his resurrection is celebrated.
Here's the official layout of the festival from Wikipedia and Ancient Roman sources:
15 March. 'The Reed Entered'. It's exact significance is uncertain (the reeds may refer to the river bank where Attis was exposed as a child and rescued by Cybele.) A nine day period of abstinence from bread, pomegranates, quinces, pork, fish and probably wine began. Only milk was permitted as a drink.[6]
22 March. 'The Tree Entered' (Arbor intrat). A pine tree from a wood sacred to Cybele is felled following the sacrifice of a ram (OR BULL REPRESENTING OSIRIS-ATTIS) at its roots. The tree was carried in procession through the city as if in a funeral to the Temple of Cybele on the Palatine Hill.
23 March. A day of mourning.
24 March. 'The Day of Blood' (Sanguis). Frenzied rites including scourging and whipping. Castration rituals would take place on this day. the tree is symbolically buried.
25 March. 'The Day of Joy' (Hilaria) celebrating the resurrection of Attis. This was the hilaria proper (as opposed to the mournful tone of the previous days).
26 March. A day of rest.
27 March. 'The Washing' (Lavatio). Added by Marcus Aurelius.
28 March. Possible ceremony at the Vatican sanctuary. Appears in the Calendar of Philocalus.
March 22nd, March 23rd, March 24th...Attis is dead (3 DAYS). On March 25th he's alive. To what is this 3 day death motif a reference, you ask? It's a reference to the sun at the time of DECEMBER 25TH.
See Here: Oxford Dictionary of Archeology: Solstice: "Literally, the sun's standstill. The extreme positions of the sun at midwinter when its eastern risings and western settings appear to take place in the same position on the horizon for ----THREE DAYS---- in succession."
Those 3 days are December 22nd, 23rd, and 24th. Afterwards, the sun is born or reborn/resurrected (not fully resurrected until the vernal equinox at March 22nd, when day finally becomes longer than night.)
ATTIS: CRUCIFIED
Please take the time and go back to my post on Osiris-Horus' crucifixion. Remember this figure? 
THE -------TREE TRUNK------(DJED PILLAR) CONTAINING OSIRIS' DEAD BODY
DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT SYMBOL IT WAS COMBINED WITH?
NOTICE IT BELOW THE ANKH CROSS
Ovid Metamorphoses 10. 103 (43 BC - 17AD) -- "Pines, high-girdled, in a leafy crest, the favorite of the God's Great Mother (Grata Deum Matri), since in this -------TREE----- Attis Cybelious doffed his human shape and stiffened in it's -----TRUNK----"
At the Hilaria festival (3 day death), an effigy of Attis was hung on a PINE TREE and wheeled through the the city of Rome. During the ceremony a BULL OR RAM representing OSIRIS was sacrificed at the base of the tree. The TREE TRUNK in which Attis is entombed is none other than the DJED PILLAR from Osiris' myth...Attis is Osiris.
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"For all things have been baptized in the well of eternity and are beyond good
and evil; and good and evil themselves are but intervening shadows and damp
depressions and drifting clouds.Verily, it is a blessing and not a blasphemy
when I teach: ‘Over all things stand the heaven Accident, the heaven
Innocence, the heaven Chance, the heaven Prankishness." -Nietzsche |
| Edited by - teched246 on 05/23/2011 06:03:39 |
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teched246
Skeptic Friend
123 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 07:37:04 [Permalink]
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BUDDHA: WALKING ON WATER
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/dob/dob-11tx.htm
Digha Nikaya Kevaddha Sutta XI (From the Pali Cannon compiled in 29 BC)
Here, Buddha is teaching one of his disciples about the "mystic wonders", and "water walking" is mentioned.
{p. 277} "There are three sorts of wonders, Kevaddha, which I, having myself understood and realised them, have made known to others. And what are the three? The mystic wonder, the wonder of manifestation, and the wonder of education...'And what, Kevaddha, is the mystic wonder? 'In this case, Kevaddha, suppose that a brother enjoys the possession, in various ways, of mystic power--from being one he becomes multiform, from being multiform he becomes one: from being visible he becomes invisible: he passes without hindrance to the further side of a wall or a battlement or a mountain, as if through air: he penetrates up and down through solid ground, as if through water: -------HE WALKS ON WATER WITHOUT DIVIDING IT AS IF ON SOLID GROUND------
Here's another Buddhist Scripture featuring "water walking", titled "The Gospel of Buddha: Compiled from Ancient Records by Paul Carus [1909] A modern retelling of the Buddha's work and life." http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/btg/btg86.htm
"This stream shall not prevent me. I shall go and see the Blessed One, AND HE STEPPED UPON THE WATER WHICH WAS FIRM UNDER HIS FEET LIKE A SLAB OF GRANITE"
(By the way, Paul Carus' credentials can be seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Wiki states "He was a key figure in the introduction of Buddhism, to the West,[4] sponsoring Buddhist translation work of D.T. Suzuki, and fostering a lifelong working friendship with Buddhist Master, Soyen Shaku"
BUDDHA: STAR IN THE EAST
In the Buddha Karita of Asvaghosa translated by E.B. Cowell, F Max Muller and J. Takakusu Book 1 Verse 25 it states: "At the time the CONSTELLATION PUSHYA was auspicious, and from the side of the queen who was purified by her vow HER SON WAS BORN FOR THE WELFARE OF THE WORLD (yeah, just like jesus was)" (Book 1 Verse 25)
The Constellation Pushya was given the title TISHYA, and in various traditions, Sirius, the Star in the East, is identifed as or corresponding to the same character. Search Here: http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AoSV6GbRw18ySfyMHfnobxmbvZx4?p=tishya+sirius&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-374
BUDDHA: VIRGIN MOTHER
(The Gospels of Buddha by Paul Carus Chapter 4 http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/btg/btg05.htm ) "As the Queen of Heaven she lived on Earth UNTAINTED BY DESIRE (SEX) AND IMMACULATE" (First Lines)
(The Life of Buddha by Paul Carus Chapter 1 http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/lob/lob03.htm ) "My Lord I ask you to respect my AUSTERE LIFE. Do not enter the dim forest of desire; allow me to observe the HOLY LAW OF ABSTINENCE."
(English translation of the Buddha-karita of Asvaghosa by E.B. Cowell, F. Max Muller and J. Takakusu, Book 1 Verse 19-20) "Then falling from the host of being in the Tushita heavern...the most excellent of Bodhisatvas suddenly ENTERED A THOUGHT WITHIN HER WOMB."
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"For all things have been baptized in the well of eternity and are beyond good
and evil; and good and evil themselves are but intervening shadows and damp
depressions and drifting clouds.Verily, it is a blessing and not a blasphemy
when I teach: ‘Over all things stand the heaven Accident, the heaven
Innocence, the heaven Chance, the heaven Prankishness." -Nietzsche |
| Edited by - teched246 on 05/23/2011 07:43:25 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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jlg2169
New Member
3 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 13:42:24 [Permalink]
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I've read a lot of people claiming that KingDavid has no qualifications, but can I get a list of qualifications that everyone else has?
No offense, but reading a book does not make you "qualified" to translate hieroglyphics. Have these sources been peer reviewed?
I have noticed what appears to be Egyptian depictions such as:
But I could create that in photoshop in a matter of hours, or I could add a disco ball and claim that the Egyptians had a disco era, thus making the 70's based on Egyptian culture.
I guess the biggest problem I have here is that the pictures of Jesus being crucified being compared to what may or may not be an actual relic of Egypt. So what if someone depicted Jesus with his mother to his right and a woman to his left? Have you never taken a picture like that with your mom and some other girl? There's only so many ways to arrange 3 people in a picture, you're bound to get the same order sooner or later.
I do believe that this poll will fall the way of the skeptics. Why? Not because this evidence is overwhelming obvious, but this site will be frequented by "skeptics" more than "believers". Everyone on this site has already made up their mind and not budging. That's not to say that Christians aren't willing to accept the evidence that skeptics, or that the skeptics aren't willing to accept the evidence that Christians present, but each side has chosen their path. So this entire thread is an act of futility. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 14:02:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by jlg2169
I've read a lot of people claiming that KingDavid has no qualifications... |
I see one person claiming that. And I disagree with him that qualifications matter in this particular discussion.| ...but can I get a list of qualifications that everyone else has? |
Whatever for?| I do believe that this poll will fall the way of the skeptics. Why? Not because this evidence is overwhelming obvious, but this site will be frequented by "skeptics" more than "believers". Everyone on this site has already made up their mind and not budging. That's not to say that Christians aren't willing to accept the evidence that skeptics, or that the skeptics aren't willing to accept the evidence that Christians present, but each side has chosen their path. So this entire thread is an act of futility. |
I, for one, don't actually know what the evidence is, yet. I've been avoiding reading what's been posted here to-date because of the Mulligan that we all agreed to, and because in its current format, it's just plain hard to read.
And really, I understand that every myth had to have a first telling, and so it doesn't make a difference to me whether some milestones in Jesus' alleged life were warmed-over paganism or they were brand-spanking new. Being myths original to Jesus doesn't make the case for Christianity any stronger, so I have nothing at all invested in either side of this debate being correct. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 16:05:32 [Permalink]
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| And really, I understand that every myth had to have a first telling, and so it doesn't make a difference to me whether some milestones in Jesus' alleged life were warmed-over paganism or they were brand-spanking new. Being myths original to Jesus doesn't make the case for Christianity any stronger, so I have nothing at all invested in either side of this debate being correct. |
Couldn't have said this better myself.
So when does the re-do of this show get started? And is it gonna be on this thread or elsewhere? |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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jlg2169
New Member
3 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 16:57:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
I see one person claiming that. And I disagree with him that qualifications matter in this particular discussion. |
That was my bad for exchanging "people" for "person". I was thinking more generally, so I do apologize.
I just wanted to see if anyone has any formal training in Egyptian literature. If we are going to say one person has no qualifications, then we should go ahead and admit no one here has any real qualifications other than we know how to read. That might not mean anything, but if we're going to have one guy plastering the wall we might as well establish if anyone is formally trained.
I, for one, don't actually know what the evidence is, yet. I've been avoiding reading what's been posted here to-date because of the Mulligan that we all agreed to, and because in its current format, it's just plain hard to read.
And really, I understand that every myth had to have a first telling, and so it doesn't make a difference to me whether some milestones in Jesus' alleged life were warmed-over paganism or they were brand-spanking new. Being myths original to Jesus doesn't make the case for Christianity any stronger, so I have nothing at all invested in either side of this debate being correct.
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I, for one, would like to see the evidence as well. I always enjoy a good, friendly debate.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 05/24/2011 : 18:25:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by jlg2169
I just wanted to see if anyone has any formal training in Egyptian literature. |
That could potentially be Cuneiformist, one of our moderators...
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 18:29:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by jlg2169
I just wanted to see if anyone has any formal training in Egyptian literature. |
That could potentially be Cuneiformist, one of our moderators...
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Yeah, Cune is the man on ancient languages!
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 19:04:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
Couldn't have said this better myself. |
Thanks.| So when does the re-do of this show get started? |
Tentatively, it'll reboot by June 11th.| And is it gonna be on this thread or elsewhere? |
It'll be a new thread, definitely. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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changingmyself
Skeptic Friend
USA
122 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 19:17:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by KingDavid8
Originally posted by teched246
Before we continue posting sources for KD's list i'll share a few other tales of virgin mothers and crucified saviours |
Teched, let's leave it with the Zeitgeist list only.
Also, remember that if you're just going to quote someone who repeats the claims, it either needs to be a scholar who works for a university, or it needs to be from a peer-reviewed journal or from a general mythology website or book. Most of what you've been posting so far is from neither, as far as I know, so it does not count as evidence. What I'd really like you to do is when you post a piece of evidence, tell me how it fits in with my criteria. If you're quoting a scholar who works for a university, tell us which university he or she works for.
My reason for the criteria is that if these claims were true, we would expect there to be versions of the story where they happened, or we would expect them to be acknowledged by the highest-level scholars, or we would expect them to pass peer-review, or we would expect general mythology websites and books to acknowledge them. Someone simply repeating the claims is no more than what Zeitgeist itself does, so it's not any better "evidence" for the claim than Zeitgeist itself.
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Why should this be limited to the Zeitgeist information, a myth is a myth is a myth and not limited to that on the Zeitgeist video.
What if we can show that the highest level scholars do say these things david? Are you going to believe it then or are you still going to claim that your challenge has gone unanswered?
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"The gospels are not eyewitness accounts"
-Allen D. Callahan, Associate Professor of New Testament, Harvard Divinity School
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THE ZG EVIDENCE...
