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sugarino
New Member
33 Posts |
 Posted - 06/21/2011 : 21:03:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Baxter
Most futurists that I have heard say that "generation" means "race" (the Jews) in the given context. I don't buy it, but it's a common response.
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lol Yeah.. Technically the Greek word can mean "race" so that is where they are getting that, but I don't buy that one either.It's almost as good as my apologetic version that I'm messen with now though lol
but it's not as good.
It all depends on the context on how 'genea' is applied comparatively to determine the most likely possibility.
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2011 : 05:10:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by sugarino
Originally posted by sailingsoul
If I understand your kind of 'figuring' then you should have no problem with me applying your logic by simply inserting 'The Flying Spaghetti Monster' for Jesus.
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You have your freewill,just know that God already knew that you would say this here.
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Then wouldn't that be, at best, the illussion of free will. And if you acknowledge that your god already knows what you will say, think, or do, then you should recognize that you have no free will at all. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2011 : 07:03:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by sugarino[/i]
To answer your question seriously, they aren't the same because the fsm is a mock... Jesus,Horus,and Buddha are not .. (Hey that kind of rhymed) |
FSM, a mock? Yes I know. As a God, He has as much validity and supporting evidence as Jesus, Hours, Buddha or all the others. There are quite a few, all believed to be Gods, by people through out time. All of them are as much Gods as the FSM could be. Mocking or not. | Have you tried saying a prayer for those poor theists ? |
I'm an Atheist. I don't pray to imaginary boogeygods for any reason. Theists can pray or not, the results are the same.| I can't say that SS, I don't want to chance going to hell. |
Right, All the good deeds toward your fellow man will be for nothing if you should dare acknowledge the factual and written inconsistencies in the Bible. The God theist cower to is a pitiful Deity after all so they need to be careful.
| You don't ? I can indeed show you with undeniable,sfn approved fact that you did. But I am a fair person and we all make errors so I will assume that you repented since you posted this. |
If you care to point it out and it's wrong, I'll retract it.| Do you even recognize the error ? That is a big Bible Hole SS. |
You brought this up before and I tried to ignore it. Seeing you won't let it go, I'll fix my typo. I'm correcting where I wrote "and that was over +/-2000 years ago." to "and that was over +/-, 2000 years ago.". If that's not what your referring to then be more specific. | ,,, so we really have to rely on what is written ... Greek anyone ? SS, I'm not making any claims or twisting anything, I'm merely suggesting scriptural support for my interpretation. If you aren't interested, that is not a problem but seeing the Bible Hole that you did carelessly post is so fucked up, I don't think you know enough to even make the call in the first place. |
Why don't explain what your talking about. And Yes 'we' must really rely on what's written. I relying on what's written in the versions of the Bible every Theists I've ever met relies on. Which Bible are you referring to? Let's save time. You tell me which Bible you want to go by and I use that Bible to point out the inconsistencies. They all have them no matter which language their written in. I haven't read them all but I feel safe in my position. So? which Bible are you going by?| True, but as you pointed out, Jesus was talking to them, not us, so we really have to rely on what is written ... Greek anyone ? SS, I'm not making any claims or twisting anything, I'm merely suggesting scriptural support for my interpretation. If you aren't interested, that is not a problem but seeing the Bible Hole that you did carelessly post is so fucked up, I don't think you know enough to even make the call in the first place. |
Be specific, I'm not a mind reader. | Now, I'm not trying to piss you off because that is nonsense |
Good and Ditto, I'm not pissed off you shouldn't be either. If I pissed or piss you off, sorry. Your reactions are only under your control.. It's not really in anyone's control how other people take things.
| I have my Christian Young Earth Short Bus Creation Abiogenesis Mormon Evolution Bible Study Group. (the CYESBCAMEBSG) |
Enjoy, have a good time. SS |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
| Edited by - sailingsoul on 06/22/2011 08:10:21 |
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sugarino
New Member
33 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2011 : 10:58:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by moakley
Originally posted by sugarino
Originally posted by sailingsoul
If I understand your kind of 'figuring' then you should have no problem with me applying your logic by simply inserting 'The Flying Spaghetti Monster' for Jesus.
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You have your freewill,just know that God already knew that you would say this here.
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Then wouldn't that be, at best, the illussion of free will. And if you acknowledge that your god already knows what you will say, think, or do, then you should recognize that you have no free will at all.
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Yes, at best, the illusion of freewill is a well though out description. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2011 : 11:26:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by sugarino
Originally posted by moakley
Originally posted by sugarino
Originally posted by sailingsoul
If I understand your kind of 'figuring' then you should have no problem with me applying your logic by simply inserting 'The Flying Spaghetti Monster' for Jesus.
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You have your freewill,just know that God already knew that you would say this here.
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Then wouldn't that be, at best, the illussion of free will. And if you acknowledge that your god already knows what you will say, think, or do, then you should recognize that you have no free will at all.
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Yes, at best, the illusion of freewill is a well though out description.
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I was also wondering whether the irony in your statement was intentional, but it was to tough to tell since the abscence of free will is not an easily accepted consequence for those believing in an omniscient god. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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sugarino
New Member
33 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2011 : 11:38:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by sailingsoul
Right, All the good deeds toward your fellow man will be for nothing if you should dare acknowledge the factual and written inconsistencies in the Bible. The God theist cower to is a pitiful Deity after all so they need to be careful. |
Except I already told you that I'm aware of inconsistencies in a prior post to you. I at least expect that you have read prior posts that are addressed to you.
| If you care to point it out and it's wrong, I'll retract it.You brought this up before and I tried to ignore it. Seeing you won't let it go, I'll fix my typo. I'm correcting where I wrote "and that was over +/-2000 years ago." to "and that was over +/-, 2000 years ago.". If that's not what your referring to then be more specific. |
Jesus never told them, the time was near, he told them after the signs that were going to happen,to know that the time is near.That might seem like a minor distinction but is really isn't.
| Why don't explain what your talking about. And Yes 'we' must really rely on what's written. I relying on what's written in the versions of the Bible every Theists I've ever met relies on. Which Bible are you referring to? Let's save time. You tell me which Bible you want to go by and I use that Bible to point out the inconsistencies.They all have them no matter which language their written in. I haven't read them all but I feel safe in my position. So? which Bible are you going by? |
No that's fine, only pointing out that in matters such as these, Greek needs to be considered.
| Be specific, I'm not a mind reader. |
OK,thank you.. We are on the same page at this time.So Jesus was talking about that specific generation and I don't accept that "apologetic" version that I offered up in the beginning either.... still brushing up on my study SS but I will give you my understanding 'no apologetic crap' soon.. Some things have to happen first but after that, my interpretation will be very near. lol
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sugarino
New Member
33 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 08:14:01 [Permalink]
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Ok SS, I been thinking about this some and have come up with and discovered some interesting points..The signs to come within Their generation were as followers:
1.The Gospel would be preached to all the world
2.they would see the "Abomination of Desolation" that Daniel had spoken of
3. There would come a time of great tribulation.
Then "Immediately after the distress of those days"
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b]
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven."
My question is, according to the story, what in the story is to say these things didn't take place ? To say these things didn't happen ? I have support that they did take place so if you have any particulars to point out to me, please do so.
Again, I am offering up my interpretation based on my on thoughts and research ...
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 18:07:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by sugarino
Ok SS, I been thinking about this some and have come up with and discovered some interesting points..The signs to come within Their generation were as followers:
1.The Gospel would be preached to all the world
2.they would see the "Abomination of Desolation" that Daniel had spoken of
3. There would come a time of great tribulation.
Then "Immediately after the distress of those days"
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven."
My question is, according to the story, what in the story is to say these things didn't take place ? To say these things didn't happen ? I have support that they did take place so if you have any particulars to point out to me, please do so.
Again, I am offering up my interpretation based on my on thoughts and research ...
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 You are funny. (SS is still laughing) What in the story says these things didn't happen? I'm not even going to humor you with a response that would pale in comparison. [b]Sugarino thank you for responding so many times. I could take you at face value, that your are sincere and not playing games but as I read some of your replies, like the one above, I can't believe you are being sincere. If you are, one of us has a serious disconnect in this thread. Remember we both said we are not here to play games and/or piss anyone off. I'll see you later on other threads. I'm finished posting on this one and still laughing. You have a good one. SS  |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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sugarino
New Member
33 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2011 : 22:58:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by sailingsoul
Originally posted by sugarino
Ok SS, I been thinking about this some and have come up with and discovered some interesting points..The signs to come within Their generation were as followers:
1.The Gospel would be preached to all the world
2.they would see the "Abomination of Desolation" that Daniel had spoken of
3. There would come a time of great tribulation.
Then "Immediately after the distress of those days"
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven."
My question is, according to the story, what in the story is to say these things didn't take place ? To say these things didn't happen ? I have support that they did take place so if you have any particulars to point out to me, please do so.
Again, I am offering up my interpretation based on my on thoughts and research ...
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You are funny. (SS is still laughing) What in the story says these things didn't happen? I'm not even going to humor you with a response that would pale in comparison. [b]Sugarino thank you for responding so many times. I could take you at face value, that your are sincere and not playing games but as I read some of your replies, like the one above, I can't believe you are being sincere. If you are, one of us has a serious disconnect in this thread. Remember we both said we are not here to play games and/or piss anyone off. I'll see you later on other threads. I'm finished posting on this one and still laughing. You have a good one. SS
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Well I was hoping that you would at least give me your straight answers in writing, preferable in a non-condescending way since I am being sincere and not at all trying to anger you.
Preferably nice and neatly numbered if you have more than one reason please SS. I might even prove to be going somewhere with this,albeit, I will never know if you don't help me out in showing me the 'specific errors' of my ways .. I have put some time and thought into this and promised that I wasn't going to give you some bull shitty answer but one you might at least find plausible..
Remember that if our girlfriend here "Changingmyself" is right, that Jesus is just another solar deity myth, it seems silly that it would have a failed ending,right ? I mean, it seems that there should be a good ending to a good story as a matter of speaking.
So while I am glad that you did find humor in my post, because it is indeed good to laugh, I'm not trolling you sight, I promise. |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2011 : 08:27:40 [Permalink]
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Sugarino I understand your position. I too believe I am being sincere, as you claim you are being. I believe and hope you see that it happens where people can make a claim and by their actions belie (Fail to fulfill or justify) that claim intentionally or not. I suggest we try to do a 'reset'. I would like to get focused on one point or issue and let it run it's course. Let me compose a reply to the most recent post that I did not respond to, to your satisfaction. I'm speaking of this post.
Originally posted by sugarino
Ok SS, I been thinking about this some and have come up with and discovered some interesting points..The signs to come within Their generation were as followers:
1.The Gospel would be preached to all the world
2.they would see the "Abomination of Desolation" that Daniel had spoken of
3. There would come a time of great tribulation.
Then "Immediately after the distress of those days"
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b]
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven."
My question is, according to the story, what in the story is to say these things didn't take place ? To say these things didn't happen ? I have support that they did take place so if you have any particulars to point out to me, please do so.
Again, I am offering up my interpretation based on my on thoughts and research ...
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I will get back with a reply but before I can could you indicate where these quoted parts of your reply came from in the Bible? It may be relevant to my reply.
Then "Immediately after the distress of those days"
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b]
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven." |
SS |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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sugarino
New Member
33 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2011 : 09:57:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by sailingsoul
Sugarino I understand your position. I too believe I am being sincere, as you claim you are being. I believe and hope you see that it happens where people can make a claim and by their actions belie (Fail to fulfill or justify) that claim intentionally or not. I suggest we try to do a 'reset'. I would like to get focused on one point or issue and let it run it's course. Let me compose a reply to the most recent post that I did not respond to, to your satisfaction. I'm speaking of this post. |
Yes,I understand,and if I just wanted to lay a claim out on you with no support, I would have spammed your site such the way as ChristianIssues did. I'm not that kind of guy. So yes, a 'reset' is a great idea.
And as a sign of good faith, I'm not really in a young earth creation Bible study group, that was a bit of a fib.
| I will get back with a reply but before I can could you indicate where these quoted parts of your reply came from in the Bible? It may be relevant to my reply. |
OK, and no hurry,take your time at your leisure...
Those things that I listed can be found Here or Here,at the beginning: Mark 13 Matthew 24.. Thank you
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2011 : 23:54:26 [Permalink]
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Sugarino, in my last reply I said in part
| I would like to get focused on one point or issue and let it run it's course. Let me compose a reply to the most recent post that I did not respond to, to your satisfaction. |
Here is what I see as an overview of how we got to where we are and then I'll continue.
My first comment in this thread was, on page 1, the 5th reply and was directed toward ChristianIssues with a comment. It was toward his only posting in this thread. I posted this in part Matthew 24:33-34 (King James Version)
33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled |
with further comment directed toward ChristianIssues for his address. That was before he made it clear that he's not going to partake in any meaningful form of defending his beliefs and post by not replying to date. Basically you picked up CI's cause since he didn't. Apparently he's just a spammer afraid and or incapable of even attempting to defend his beliefs and your not.
Then came a number of serious and not so serious comments toward addressing the issue by both of us, moakley and others when we got to a point where you said,
| OK,thank you.. We are on the same page at this time.So Jesus was talking about that specific generation and I don't accept that "apologetic" version that I offered up in the beginning either.... still brushing up on my study SS but I will give you my understanding 'no apologetic crap' soon.. Some things have to happen first but after that, my interpretation will be very near. lol |
After you took time to think, you posted this,Originally posted by sugarino
Ok SS, I been thinking about this some and have come up with and discovered some interesting points..The signs to come within Their generation were as followers:
1.The Gospel would be preached to all the world
2.they would see the "Abomination of Desolation" that Daniel had spoken of
3. There would come a time of great tribulation.
Then "Immediately after the distress of those days"
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven."
My question is, according to the story, what in the story is to say these things didn't take place ? To say these things didn't happen ? I have support that they did take place so if you have any particulars to point out to me, please do so.
Again, I am offering up my interpretation based on my on thoughts and research ... |
Now that I got your source, I looked in to it. I Googled Mark 13 and Matthew 24 and read very carefully the passages given before and after.
As I read it Jesus is being very specific, in a very general way. Specifically, He says nothing one can take to the bank. If you translate what I'm saying into the Greek of the time. "He gives up, not one shekel of real information". I'm not trying to generalize but He says you'll see this and you'll see that but even then may not be the time but it's coming. It's confusing being so vague, to be specific. Your not confused because you want to believe, you do believe. Jesus claims he does not know the exact time he will return. When he does return He will descend from the heavens but does not knowing when, still vague. He's like on standby I guess. Waiting for God (Himself) to notify Him when it's time, right? You don't find that confusing? I do, if it's to be believed. You see it making sense but it doesn't make sense at all. He's appearing to answer their direct questions but does not give exact answers. I know , you write that off as "he doesn't know the exact time". I think if there really is a God and he wasn't so vague everyone would believe. I do think if there is no God, those trying to convince me there is have to be vague and mysterious.
[b]Sugarino, I understand you believe and you are try to get me to see it your way too. Great, I like that and really appreciate it. Try to see it with the same critical eye I view if from, not with your critical eye. Put Jesus aside completely for one moment, if that's possible. We both live in a world that is full of con men of all kinds that are constantly trying to get over on anyone and constantly try to get a buck out of a mark. Is that not the case? That's all I see here. I'm still willing to hear you out. SS |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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sugarino
New Member
33 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2011 : 01:19:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by sailingsoul
Sugarino, in my last reply I said in part
| I would like to get focused on one point or issue and let it run it's course. Let me compose a reply to the most recent post that I did not respond to, to your satisfaction. |
Here is what I see as an overview of how we got to where we are and then I'll continue.
My first comment in this thread was, on page 1, the 5th reply and was directed toward ChristianIssues with a comment. It was toward his only posting in this thread. I posted this in part Matthew 24:33-34 (King James Version)
33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled |
with further comment directed toward ChristianIssues for his address. That was before he made it clear that he's not going to partake in any meaningful form of defending his beliefs and post by not replying to date. Basically you picked up CI's cause since he didn't. Apparently he's just a spammer afraid and or incapable of even attempting to defend his beliefs and your not.
Then came a number of serious and not so serious comments toward addressing the issue by both of us, moakley and others when we got to a point where you said,
| OK,thank you.. We are on the same page at this time.So Jesus was talking about that specific generation and I don't accept that "apologetic" version that I offered up in the beginning either.... still brushing up on my study SS but I will give you my understanding 'no apologetic crap' soon.. Some things have to happen first but after that, my interpretation will be very near. lol |
After you took time to think, you posted this,Originally posted by sugarino
Ok SS, I been thinking about this some and have come up with and discovered some interesting points..The signs to come within Their generation were as followers:
1.The Gospel would be preached to all the world
2.they would see the "Abomination of Desolation" that Daniel had spoken of
3. There would come a time of great tribulation.
Then "Immediately after the distress of those days"
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven."
My question is, according to the story, what in the story is to say these things didn't take place ? To say these things didn't happen ? I have support that they did take place so if you have any particulars to point out to me, please do so.
Again, I am offering up my interpretation based on my on thoughts and research ... |
Now that I got your source, I looked in to it. I Googled Mark 13 and Matthew 24 and read very carefully the passages given before and after.
As I read it Jesus is being very specific, in a very general way. Specifically, He says nothing one can take to the bank. If you translate what I'm saying into the Greek of the time. "He gives up, not one shekel of real information". I'm not trying to generalize but He says you'll see this and you'll see that but even then may not be the time but it's coming. It's confusing being so vague, to be specific. Your not confused because you want to believe, you do believe. Jesus claims he does not know the exact time he will return. When he does return He will descend from the heavens but does not knowing when, still vague. He's like on standby I guess. Waiting for God (Himself) to notify Him when it's time, right? You don't find that confusing? I do, if it's to be believed. You see it making sense but it doesn't make sense at all. He's appearing to answer their direct questions but does not give exact answers. I know , you write that off as "he doesn't know the exact time". I think if there really is a God and he wasn't so vague everyone would believe. I do think if there is no God, those trying to convince me there is have to be vague and mysterious.
[b]Sugarino, I understand you believe and you are try to get me to see it your way too. Great, I like that and really appreciate it. Try to see it with the same critical eye I view if from, not with your critical eye. Put Jesus aside completely for one moment, if that's possible. We both live in a world that is full of con men of all kinds that are constantly trying to get over on anyone and constantly try to get a buck out of a mark. Is that not the case? That's all I see here. I'm still willing to hear you out. SS
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Thank you for taking your time to look into it.Remember
I make no claims but, I believe at this point in my life that Jesus' second coming was in 70 AD at the destruction of Jerusalem.
People think his return pertains to us,as in everyone,and that "we would have seen him" or known about it if it was the "end of the world." ..and Final judgment,etc... Etc... But remember, He was talking to that generation of the time, not ours .. That in itself is confusing but if you have anything to contradict my interpretation, and evidently, I'm not the only one out there that has though of this but it isn't mainstream... If you feel like challenging that, I got it covered pretty well,all angles but ... I'll leave the ball in your court,or anyone else that wants to pick up on this.
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The return of Jesus
