|
|
|
On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
 Posted - 07/21/2011 : 08:59:59 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Kil
It should probably be noted that fully half of the speakers at TAM were woman this year. And it was the best TAM I have been to. DJ is president of the JREF now. I don't think that kind of change is a coincidence.
|
He was president last year. But since you bring it up, are you saying that hysterical idiot, Phil plait and James Randi were not feminists? Are you suggesting that Randi hates women because he is gay? |
 |
 |
|
|
Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13481 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2011 : 09:00:06 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by On fire for Christ
I think I know more about her than all you guys tbqh
|
So you listen to the SGU podcast? You know more about her than I do? Okay then...
 |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
|
|
|
On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2011 : 09:01:03 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by On fire for Christ
I think I know more about her than all you guys tbqh |
Meh. Your qualifiers are not compelling.
|
I just didn't want to say "I know I know..." |
|
|
|
|
On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2011 : 09:02:06 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Kil
Originally posted by On fire for Christ
I think I know more about her than all you guys tbqh
|
So you listen to the SGU podcast? You know more about her than I do? Okay then...
|
I listened to it once, but I didn't find it very interesting. I would be more entertained if you guys did a podcast. |
|
|
|
|
Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13481 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2011 : 09:03:53 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by On fire for Christ
Originally posted by Kil
It should probably be noted that fully half of the speakers at TAM were woman this year. And it was the best TAM I have been to. DJ is president of the JREF now. I don't think that kind of change is a coincidence.
|
He was president last year. But since you bring it up, are you saying that hysterical idiot, Phil plait and James Randi were not feminists? Are you suggesting that Randi hates women because he is gay?
|
Since you bring it up, do you think I'm going to actually respond to your ridiculous strawman? |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
|
|
|
On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2011 : 09:06:59 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Kil
Since you bring it up, do you think I'm going to actually respond to your ridiculous strawman?
|
Hey I'm just asking questions. I didn't know you could make a strawman with questions. |
|
| Edited by - On fire for Christ on 07/21/2011 09:07:38 |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26031 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2011 : 09:11:47 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by On fire for Christ
Hey I'm just asking questions. I didn't know you could make a strawman with questions. |
You don't think questions can include grossly wrong assumptions? Have you stopped beating your wife yet? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26031 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2011 : 09:43:55 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Kil
For a sane article there is this:Is It Cold in Here?
by Jennifer Ouellette for Scientific American.| ...an intoxicated Irish guy... |
|
I wonder where those two adjectives came from. Perhaps Watson has gone into more detail somewhere else. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2011 : 09:44:12 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by On fire for Christ
Hey I'm just asking questions. I didn't know you could make a strawman with questions. |
You don't think questions can include grossly wrong assumptions? Have you stopped beating your wife yet?
|
No I haven't. |
|
|
|
|
On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2011 : 09:49:44 [Permalink]
|
| ...an intoxicated Irish guy... |
Some redundancy here I think... |
|
| Edited by - On fire for Christ on 07/21/2011 09:51:33 |
|
|
|
Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2011 : 10:28:34 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by On fire for Christ
| ...an intoxicated Irish guy... |
Some redundancy here I think...
|
 |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2011 : 11:23:09 [Permalink]
|
OFFC wrote: | Don't you think you're overreacting a little? |
Are you joking? I have to ask because this response from you is a stereotype - oh those feminists, always overreacting.
Assuming you are not joking, the answer is no.
And I must ask, overreacting to what? What did I say in that last message to you struck you as an overreaction?
I'm not going to claim that women have zero advantages over men in any circumstances. Certainly sometimes women do have advantages over men (for instance, women tend to drink and abuse drugs less, and women are more likely to seek medical attention when sick.) However, it is undeniable that the advantages that men have over women far overshadow the reverse. I could give a huge laundry list of examples, but perhaps the best one is simply that there are more women than men in poverty, and that is true across the board regardless of race, ethnicity, or age. What's more, it isn't because they are saddled with kids since 54% of women in poverty are single women with no dependent children (source - 2008 U.S. Census Bureau.) It's a well known fact that women earn less than male counterparts who have the same job and qualifications. It is speculated that the reasons for this include both discrimination against women by employers (overt sexism) and women being less assertive about demanding raises and promotions because of how girls and women are taught to "appropriately" behave their whole lives (sexism ingrained in our culture by social norms).
It is easy to forget how recently many of the strides in women's rights have been made because, again, they are quickly taken for granted by younger generations. It is also easy to be ignorant to the worse sexism in most other countries. And it is easy to not see the sexism still pervasive in our modern society because, just like there were people (both men and women) rolling their eyes and arguing with women's rights advocates in the 1840's and in the 1940's, there are people today who see the disadvantages of women as just not that big a deal. We get comfortable with the way things are because change presents unknowns and can lead to new problems (for instance, so many women entering the work force after women's liberation has lead to a decline in wages due to simple laws of supply and demand.) Many of us would rather just deal with the old problems we are used to rather than deal with scary, new problems. Well I say fuck that. I like owning property. I like knowing I can divorce a man who is abusing me. I like knowing that if I'm single or divorced, I can still earn a living (even if it is around 70% of what my male counterparts are able to earn.) I like that my husband doesn't have the legal right to rape me. I like knowing that my daughter can aspire to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, scientist, or choose from tons of other career tracks, and not only be a secretary, school teacher, nurse, or housewife. I like that traditionally "women's professions" like teaching and nursing are currently paid much better than they used to be. As a woman aware enough of history, I am incredibly grateful for feminism. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2011 : 11:58:16 [Permalink]
|
Kil, loved the Ouellette article. Thought this was the clearest point made:
it’s called a “chilly climate,” and it describes not just overt sexism or sexual harassment — which most people agree are unacceptable, at least in theory — but the myriad unconscious diminishing behaviors that seem to proliferate in any male-dominated environment...
All these sorts of things seem tiny and insignificant by themselves, but they add up, and this produces a cumulative “chilling” effect that makes women feel unwelcome, like they don’t belong. |
I can't say how many times I've felt this way participating in the secular movement. Ultimately it is probably this that has been causing me to slowly distance myself from the movement more and more and will probably ultimately result in my leaving alltogether. I try to pretend that it has nothing to do with male/female and masculine/feminine tensions or differences, or whatever you want to call it, but as I've gotten older and started having kids, I'm coming face to face with more gender issues that directly disadvantage me and many of my female peers. And I can't help but face up the fact that I feel like if I try to talk about these issues, I will be met with people who think I want to debate rather than discuss and then be attacked with accusations of "over-sensitivity", "irrationality" even within the secular community that I have so long identified with.
Yeah, this is bumming me out. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
|
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9696 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2011 : 12:28:20 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Kil
For a sane article there is this:
Is It Cold in Here?
by Jennifer Ouellette for Scientific American.
|
In her blog she starts:Last week, Linda Henneberg, a young science communication intern at CERN in Switzerland — best known these days as the home of the Large Hadron Collider — wrote a blog post about her experiences at the laboratory as both a woman and a non-PhD physicist. Haltingly, timidly, even a bit apologetically, she confessed, “I’ve never felt more constantly objectified, hit on, and creeped on than while at CERN.” I challenge you to find any heavily male-dominated work place where this doesn't happen. Like the military (been there, seen it), heavy manufacturing (been there, seen it), mining... (never did mining but I saw the movie...).
Continuing:Watson wasn’t hysterical, or raving, or even angry. (You can see for yourself here. It starts at the 4:30 mark.) She simply said, “Look, guys — don’t do that. It makes me very uncomfortable,” and briefly outlined the reasons why. And skipps telling exactly what Rebecca "outlined" (not that she felt physically threatened by EG but found his sexual objectifying creepy). Then she sides with the feminist mafia.
Sigh. Yet another clueless blogger. I don't know why I'm waisting my time.
|
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
|
|
|
On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2011 : 12:56:14 [Permalink]
|
| So why is it ok for women to laugh at men's penises? Explain that? |
|
|
|
 |
|
I do not like Rebecca Watson (aka skepchick)
