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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 08/26/2011 : 13:45:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Officiant
Dear Dude and Hawks, You guys are aware it is impossible to prove a negative so you are not asking me to do the impossible are you?
THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD RELIES UPON DATA
The scientific method uses some type of measurement to analyze results, feeding these findings back into theories of what we know about the world. There are two major ways of obtaining data, through measurement and observation. These are generally referred to as quantitative and qualitative measurements.
Read more: http://www.experiment-resources.com/what-is-the-scientific-method.html#ixzz1W9SeXcKV
Please supply the extraordinary evidence for data and we will begin the experiment forthwith. Unless you offer something better than the scientific method I win the bet Dude
Praying is putting your hands together, making a face like you are having a bowel movement and communicating telepathically with an imaginary entity.
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First, you can prove a negative. You do it by providing positive evidence that excludes it. I don't expect you to follow, but you could at least try.
Now, you have said that there is nothing science can't test for. If that is the case, then it should be simple for even you to devise a test for anything we challenge you to test. I see that you have walked back on this one a bit, but you need to clearly acknowledge your error.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2011 : 13:53:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Officiant
Dear Kil, There are no practical real world claims science can't test for but it is the claimant who must show up with the evidence. Where is the evidence to support the supernatural?
How long are you going to pretend we need better scientific apparatus? I have made my decision based the best scientific knowledge that exists in the real practical world. The second meaning of agnostic according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary is a person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something. Your picture was right beside it.
Are you a Dawkins category four agnostic? The Catholic Church loves you agnostics.
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I read the first sentence and thought you might have grown a brain cell. The second sentence proves me wrong though, still no indication of intelligent thought on your part. Who in this forum have you ever seen advocate for the existence of anything supernatural? Why are you still trying to argue against your imbecilic straw man version of agnosticism?
Your misconception has been corrected for you a dozen times. Yet you remain willfully ignorant and cling stubbornly to your false belief. I'll say it again, your fundamentalist faith based atheism is nonsense. It has blinded you, it prevents you from being able to even consider that you might be wrong.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2011 : 15:03:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Officiant
As you well know it is impossible to be just a little bit pregnant. |
At least science can test if you are pregnant.
| That's what these hyphenated agnostics seem to want. They say they are atheists but they are are still a little bit agnostic and afraid to completely say goodbye to the SkyDaddy. |
Apart from being a complete straw-man, I think that this illustrates why Officiant seems to be totally incapable of understanding what agnosticism is. He lacks the imagination to conceive of any deities other than the Judeo-Christian god. This allows him to ignore the infinite number of other conceivable gods, MANY of which can't be scientifically tested for.
Or maybe he is just a complete moron.
| I was also an agnostic until I found out the Catholic Church likes them. |
That's brilliant. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2011 : 15:50:43 [Permalink]
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Officiant wrote: | Dear marfknox, Great to see another strong atheist on this forum. We are rare. |
Oh, it's so cute, you think I'm in some sense on your side. You are an idiot. You admittedly can't even distinguish between religion and faith. (Let me try to explain it in simple terms: in addition to usually including a set of beliefs, religion can and usually does also include a set of practices, and is associated with organized institutions. Faith is not a necessary component of religion - that's how you can have two adherents to the same religion who have totally different belief systems.) What staggering ignorance. You also think that one's personal worldview dictates one's stance on public policy and certain social issues. News flash: it doesn't. There are some powerful, conservative atheists who support aspects of what the religious right is doing because it benefits them. There are Catholics who support abortion rights. There are strong atheists like me who speak out and would fight to preserve religious freedom, including religious freedom for people whose worldviews I despise. I'm also not so fucking arrogant about my strong atheism as you are. I'm just a strong atheist in my personal worldview because I can't help it. It is what I think is true. But I'm not so fucking arrogant as to assume that the personal experience and mode of thinking and whatever else lead to me having this worldview is the be-all, end-all of of developing a proper life stance. I have humility and doubt about my own beliefs, as I think all people should since we are just little short-lived tiny specks on this little tiny speck of a planet in a state of existence that we are probably still a far cry from truly understanding, if we are even capable for truly understanding. Plus I'm just more interested in what I'm having for dinner tonight that lecturing people about what they should believe about things we can't know for sure and that don't make one goddamned difference to how we really live our lives.
But you don't actually listen to what people say when they respond to you, so it is pointless to even begin to try to debate with you. This forum is full of extremely thoughtful, rational skeptics, and you've just come charging in here with little more than bluster and insults. Crawl back under your bridge, troll.
| I was also an agnostic until I found out the Catholic Church likes them. |
See, you're not even a real skeptic. Your opinions are apparently motivated by bias and emotions, not reason. Fuckin' lame. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Officiant
Skeptic Friend
166 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2011 : 18:46:39 [Permalink]
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| Dear marfknox, It's not cute at you think you moron. You conveniently forgot to post the following. "Not so good that you slagged me." Clearly you are not on my side. But that didn't suit your clumsy attempt to appear to be smart so you left it out. A good gauge of your honesty. Name those right wing atheists or lose all credibility. Sounds like story you just made up. Have you ever heard Allah u Akbar on your TV? Those people think it makes a difference to what they will do. Your example of two adherents to the same religion is obviously dumb because they both have faith; the ability to believe what is otherwise absurd which is necessary for religion; not optional. One can hate Islam without hating Muslims. No you are not just arrogant with a lowlife vocabulary you are also an apathetic self-centered narcissist who is as you aptly put it,"...just more interested in what I'm having for dinner tonight.." You don't care that the greatest cause of human misery is religion and that some of us recognize the danger and want to do something about it. I am not a skeptic. I was invited here by Kil. You have no clue what motivates me. It's altruism. Religion should be exposed as fraudulent and the poison should not be passed on to future generations. Go eat your dinner. |
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Officiant
Skeptic Friend
166 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2011 : 19:01:26 [Permalink]
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Dear Dave W, You are sticking your nose in where it does not belong. I have answered your question. Agnostics are cowards because they can't shit and they can't get off the pot.
Now I'm having a serious discussion with Dude and Hawks and I'm waiting for the extraordinary evidence. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2011 : 19:10:18 [Permalink]
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Officiant, just out of curiosity, since you started this crusade against agnostics, how many people have you been able to find who agrees with your arguments? Any?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2011 : 19:40:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Officiant
Dear Dave W, You are sticking your nose in where it does not belong. I have answered your question. Agnostics are cowards because they can't shit and they can't get off the pot.
Now I'm having a serious discussion with Dude and Hawks and I'm waiting for the extraordinary evidence.
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You are a moron. Your pathetic straw man version of agnosticism is wrong and we have explained why a dozen times. That you can't comprehend is clear.
Neither Hawks nor I have made any claim about a creator, that is just more of your stupidity. You made the claim that science can test anything, Hawks gave you an example of an untestable claim. You lose unless you can describe how it would be tested. So you lose.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2011 : 19:44:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Officiant
Dear Dave W, You are sticking your nose in where it does not belong. |
Do you seriously think you can have an invitation-only conversation on a public web forum? You're more deluded than I thought.| I have answered your question. Agnostics are cowards because they can't shit and they can't get off the pot. |
That's not evidence. That's you repeating the #2 Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of "agnostic" and praying that it will magically become evidence. I asked for evidence - scientific evidence that has gone through reliable peer review - that "Agnostic atheists are cowardly pseudo-intellectual dilettantes." You haven't even tried to answer that question.| Now I'm having a serious discussion with Dude and Hawks and I'm waiting for the extraordinary evidence. |
Well, I find your claims extraordinary, so you'll need to provide much more than your opinion as evidence in support of them.
Come on, Officiant, either shit or get off the pot. Don't be a hypocritical cowardly liar, be a man.
You also wrote:| Religion should be exposed as fraudulent and the poison should not be passed on to future generations. |
If one substitutes "faith" for "religion," I agree with this idea, but the fact that you're trying to spread your own atheistic faith, Officiant, means that you're one of the frauds whose poison needs to be stopped. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Officiant
Skeptic Friend
166 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2011 : 06:59:30 [Permalink]
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'Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful
without having to believe that there are
fairies at the bottom of it too?'
That's by Douglas Adams. You will find it in the preface of The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2011 : 08:54:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Officiant
'Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful
without having to believe that there are
fairies at the bottom of it too?'
That's by Douglas Adams. You will find it in the preface of The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins.
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Nice! I wholeheartedly agree with Adams!
So who are those people here who believe that fairies are living at the bottom of the garden? We all know about Arthur Conan Doyle's belief in spiritualism and the Cottingley fairies. Interestingly, his creation of a the completely rational Sherlock Holms character came from a guy who held irrational beliefs as a worldview. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2011 : 09:37:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Officiant
Now I'm having a serious discussion with Dude and Hawks and I'm waiting for the extraordinary evidence.
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You made the claim that science can examine anything. You're also claiming that you're requiring extraordinary evidence to examine a certain claim (i.e. there is a god that controls things). I can think of a couple of reasons why you do this:
1:
You never meant it when you said that science can examine anything. I find this unlikely since you wrote it in response to Dude's claim that science can't examine everything.
2:
You know that you've messed up, but you aren't man enough to confess to it.
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You're a troll.
4:
You're maintaining that science can examine anything AND that it can't examine everything. This is possible, since you have all the hallmarks of a moron.
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You're just a moron and you don't really know what you write at all since you just grab some words from somewhere because they seem to agree with your conclusion.
There will be more possibilities, of course, and some of the ones above might overlap. Would you care to comment, Officiant |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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alienist
Skeptic Friend
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2011 : 10:43:04 [Permalink]
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Officiant
You have become incredibly boring. It's obvious you are not here for a discussion You are here to make yourself feel better by thinking you are superior to others. As I said, boring.
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The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well! - Joe Ancis |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2011 : 14:11:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Officiant
'Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful
without having to believe that there are
fairies at the bottom of it too?'
That's by Douglas Adams. |
Yes, and it's an anti-faith sentiment. I fully support it, and am still an agnostic atheist.| You will find it in the preface of The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. |
Why are you quoting a book you think is written by a cowardly agnostic? I suppose you think he just stumbles across words of true wisdom while fumbling about in his church-friendly agnostic pseudo-intellectualism, in an even-a-blind-squirrel-finds-a-nut-sometimes kind of way. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Officiant
Skeptic Friend
166 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2011 : 16:19:33 [Permalink]
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| Dear Hawks, I need something to put in my beaker and test tube. You made the claim that there is a god that controls things. You are the claimant. The onus is on you to supply the evidence. No one can be expected to supply evidence to prove you wrong. |
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Cowardly Agnostics
Topic Locked
