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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
 Posted - 09/14/2011 : 20:54:54
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Good column about how annoying and wrong it is when the media celebrates popular scientific discoveries without questioning them, but is suspicious or dismissive of scientific discoveries that conflict with mainstream viewpoints.
Recently my colleagues and I announced the discovery of a remarkable planet orbiting a special kind of star known as a pulsar.
Based on the planet’s density, and the likely history of its system, we concluded that it was certain to be crystalline. In other words, we had discovered a planet made of diamond.
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Our host institutions were thrilled with the publicity and most of us enjoyed our 15 minutes of fame. The attention we received was 100% positive, but how different that could have been.
How so? Well, we could have been climate scientists. |
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Edited by - marfknox on 09/14/2011 21:02:05
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2011 : 22:20:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
Good column about how annoying and wrong it is when the media celebrates popular scientific discoveries without questioning them, but is suspicious or dismissive of scientific discoveries that conflict with mainstream viewpoints.
Recently my colleagues and I announced the discovery of a remarkable planet orbiting a special kind of star known as a pulsar.
Based on the planet’s density, and the likely history of its system, we concluded that it was certain to be crystalline. In other words, we had discovered a planet made of diamond.
...
Our host institutions were thrilled with the publicity and most of us enjoyed our 15 minutes of fame. The attention we received was 100% positive, but how different that could have been.
How so? Well, we could have been climate scientists. |
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In other news, DeBeers company has started a space program. :) |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 05:52:00 [Permalink]
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Science is not universal. God is. Science is acquired knowledge of the physical world we live in. The physical laws that govern the universe. Science is a study, a discipline and methodology.
But the belief in God or a God is universal. This belief can be found in the remotest parts of the world in the most primitive of man where the knowledge of science is almost totally absent. The belief in God is innate to man. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 06:03:38 [Permalink]
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Could you be more specific, there are many hundreds of current and historical deities. Many are so very different from each other that it would be downright moronic to compare them as a universal "belief in God"
"Oh why couldnt he choose a mainstream religion, like Oprahism or Voodoo?!" |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 06:10:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Could you be more specific, there are many hundreds of current and historical deities. Many are so very different from each other that it would be downright moronic to compare them as a universal "belief in God"
"Oh why couldnt he choose a mainstream religion, like Oprahism or Voodoo?!"
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An innate belief in a God, a divine being , a creator in part of the human psyche. Even atheist start out as believers and later reject institutionalized religion. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 06:48:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
An innate belief in a God, a divine being , a creator in part of the human psyche. Even atheist start out as believers and later reject institutionalized religion.
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If, as a child, you are never steeped in institutionalized religion, then there is nothing to fall out of belief from. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 06:56:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
Science is not universal. God is. Science is acquired knowledge of the physical world we live in. The physical laws that govern the universe. Science is a study, a discipline and methodology.
But the belief in God or a God is universal. This belief can be found in the remotest parts of the world in the most primitive of man where the knowledge of science is almost totally absent. The belief in God is innate to man.
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I applaud your sense of humour, sir! Good satire is hard to come by.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 07:38:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
An innate belief in a God, a divine being , a creator in part of the human psyche. Even atheist start out as believers and later reject institutionalized religion.
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Did you mean to say ",,,a creator is a part,,," or "in" ?
Irregardless human beings do not "start out" as you put it as an Atheist or a Theist no more than they start out a Communist, a Republican, a Muslim or whatever. Where do you come up with this stuff from a shaman? It just never stops. SS |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 08:00:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
Good column about how annoying and wrong it is when the media celebrates popular scientific discoveries without questioning them, but is suspicious or dismissive of scientific discoveries that conflict with mainstream viewpoints.
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I would agree but experiencing this as often as it occurs renders me pretty callus. With this particular example, as soon as I got to the part "In other words, we had discovered a planet made of diamond." I moved on. SS |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf
USA
1487 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 09:26:06 [Permalink]
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Way to hijack a topic, justintime. 
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 09:45:52 [Permalink]
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justintime wrote: | Science is not universal. God is. Science is acquired knowledge of the physical world we live in. The physical laws that govern the universe. Science is a study, a discipline and methodology. |
Try reading the article that the thread is based on and understanding what it means. The claim was not that science is universal in the sense that it is known, understood, and applied by all human societies. The claim is that the scientific method universally works. And it does.
| But the belief in God or a God is universal. This belief can be found in the remotest parts of the world in the most primitive of man where the knowledge of science is almost totally absent. |
No, that's wrong. I minored in anthropology in college and I remember reading about the different spiritual beliefs of various hunter/gatherer groups, and they definitely did not all believe in gods, much less God.
| The belief in God is innate to man. |
This proven absolutely false by the many atheists who were raised and remained atheist as well as the whole cultures that don't have belief in "God" as you have defined it here.
| An innate belief in a God, a divine being , a creator in part of the human psyche. Even atheist start out as believers and later reject institutionalized religion. |
Despite the fact that even if this were true (which it is not, see above) it wouldn't be evidence for God's existence. For instance, lots of flying, nocturnal bugs have an innate ability to guide their flight path by the light of the moon. But since they don't have the conscious awareness that this is what they are doing, the same bugs frequently commit unintentional suicide flying in a spiral around artificial, man-made lamps. If there is a religious instinct or tendency programmed into the genes of some or most human beings, you can be sure it serves or served some evolutionary advantageous purpose.
In summary, your facts are wrong, and your point is stupid. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 10:55:55 [Permalink]
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That is strange. Most if not every ancient culture and race of people have some rudimentary belief in a creator, a god. What they could not explain such as disease, natural disasters, cosmic events they attributed it to a god a superior being. Even in the modern world there are over 1.5 billion Muslims, 1.2 billion Christians, 1.2 billion Hindus, and millions of others who belief in a god. God has permeated every culture, race and people of this world from the beginning of time. It is innate to man to believe they was a creator behind all this creation.
It is science that does not think it is necessary to explain creation (the origin of our universe) through a god/created but that it can be explained through purely physical laws, Quantum Physics and some background chatter.
Some of the renown atheist Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens are more against the institution of organized religion and Christianity in particular.
Anthropology is the study of evolutionary traits in social, cultural and behavioral influences. It is not a study in theistic evolution. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 12:03:48 [Permalink]
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justintime wrote: What is strange?
| Most if not every ancient culture and race of people have some rudimentary belief in a creator, a god. |
It has already been pointed out to you that this is false. Definitely not every ancient culture had a belief in any gods, and many did not have a believe in a singular creator god. You seem to make a false assumption based on the predominance of monotheism today.
| What they could not explain such as disease, natural disasters, cosmic events they attributed it to a god a superior being. |
Yeah, and in every case where we've been able to eventually study those phenomena with science, the religious explanations have been shown to be wrong! I also find it interesting that you are grouping together ALL the supernatural explanations and beliefs as if they are all the same on some fundamental level (they are not.) The reality is that many people have tried to explain things about the universe many different ways, and the most consistent method we've discovered for discovering facts about objective reality by far is science.
| Even in the modern world there are over 1.5 billion Muslims, 1.2 billion Christians, 1.2 billion Hindus, and millions of others who belief in a god. |
The nonreligious make up the third largest "religious" demographic, behind Christianity and Islam. And while many among the "nonreligious" have some belief in gods, many who are categorized under various religious labels lack belief in gods. So it is fair to say that a giant chunk of the human population doesn't believe in God, and that among the rest that do, the definition of "God" varies widely enough that it is absurd to say that all believe in the same thing. They don't.
| God has permeated every culture, race and people of this world from the beginning of time. It is innate to man to believe they was a creator behind all this creation. |
It has already been explained to you with references to sources that this is false. Repeating your same false claims without actually countering the evidence to the contrary doesn't strengthen your argument.
| It is science that does not think it is necessary to explain creation (the origin of our universe) through a god/created but that it can be explained through purely physical laws, Quantum Physics and some background chatter. |
Physicists do not claim that quantum physics explains the origin of the universe. There is no prevailing theory on the answer to that particular question, especially considering that there is no grand unifying theory of physics. So once again, you are wrong.
| Some of the renown atheist Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens are more against the institution of organized religion and Christianity in particular. |
More against religion than what? Science? By what measure? And what do the socio-political opinions of a couple of well-known atheists have to do with whether science is universal or not?
| Anthropology is the study of evolutionary traits in social, cultural and behavioral influences. |
No. Anthropology is the study of humanity. Within academia it is split up into three major categories: Cultural Anthropology, Archaeology, and Physical Anthropology.
| It is not a study in theistic evolution. |
Who the fuck said it was? |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 14:24:31 [Permalink]
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How do you then use anthropology to dispute theistic evolution. I do sympathize with your repulsion for religion and god. Women were raped indiscriminately and the few that were spared were made as sacrificial offerings to ward off pestilences, droughts, natural calamities. One of the most advanced of ancient civilizations the Mayans exclusive used spared virgins as sacrificial offerings.
This does project the notion that god was a male which again is a notion prevalent in most religions.
Why virginity is still demanded in many cultures as a sign of purity and fidelity is no mystery. The hormonal changes that follow women after sexual intercourse is often unpredictable. They either turn sluttish or repulsed by the initial experience remain uncooperative.
In more modern cultures an analogy with cheese is used to describe virginity. When cheese has been sitting on the shelf for too long, it starts to smell bad.
I am amazed women will take a man on intellectually. They might succeed in arm wrestling, nut cracking given men expand better than contract, budgeting and multitasking, the economy of reusable parts. After a man has spent his stuff he needs to recover whereas to a women that is both a deposit and a down payment.
But for a woman to challenge a man intellectually. That is indisputable violation of a misplaced rib. Men have created women in their image as to what is beautiful, feminist and desirable. Take that illusion away and all you have left is a pin cushion. A collection of many pricks. |
| Edited by - justintime on 10/05/2011 14:25:45 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 14:58:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
How do you then use anthropology to dispute theistic evolution. I do sympathize with your repulsion for religion and god. Women were raped indiscriminately and the few that were spared were made as sacrificial offerings to ward off pestilences, droughts, natural calamities. One of the most advanced of ancient civilizations the Mayans exclusive used spared virgins as sacrificial offerings.
This does project the notion that god was a male which again is a notion prevalent in most religions.
Why virginity is still demanded in many cultures as a sign of purity and fidelity is no mystery. The hormonal changes that follow women after sexual intercourse is often unpredictable. They either turn sluttish or repulsed by the initial experience remain uncooperative.
In more modern cultures an analogy with cheese is used to describe virginity. When cheese has been sitting on the shelf for too long, it starts to smell bad.
I am amazed women will take a man on intellectually. They might succeed in arm wrestling, nut cracking given men expand better than contract, budgeting and multitasking, the economy of reusable parts. After a man has spent his stuff he needs to recover whereas to a women that is both a deposit and a down payment.
But for a woman to challenge a man intellectually. That is indisputable violation of a misplaced rib. Men have created women in their image as to what is beautiful, feminist and desirable. Take that illusion away and all you have left is a pin cushion. A collection of many pricks.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 17:55:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
The belief in God is innate to man.
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That's not what the latest research finds: Supernatural explanations just don't occur to kids - they need to be taught them.
justintime, you really need to start reexamining the things you "know" to be true. You might be surprised to discover how much of it is bullshit.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Science is Universal
