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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
 Posted - 09/15/2011 : 06:23:28
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Hemant Mehta (The Friendly Atheist) just wrote in his blog about a public school teacher displaying giant banners with "patriotic" God phrases in the classroom. After over 2 decades a principal finally made him take them down and he sued. Unsuccessfully.
The dickhead teacher was even offered by the principle to switch his ridiculous banners out for display which showed the same phrases in more appropriate, historical, and educational context, and he refused. This case is a great example of how important context is to understanding. I'm glad someone finally stopped this guy from taking advantage of his position as an authority figure over students.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Edited by - marfknox on 09/15/2011 06:24:30
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2011 : 06:47:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
I'm glad someone finally stopped this guy from taking advantage of his position as an authority figure over students. |
And as a de facto voice of the government. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2011 : 09:00:53 [Permalink]
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| Good news Marfknox, Ms. Clinton said during her campaign in part "that highest hardest glass ceiling,,,It's now got 18 million cracks in it,,,and the light is shining through". It seems those crack are also spreading in the stained glass windows of religious zealots. At least this teacher will no longer be able to continue with his exclusive colored view in the classroom. Crack on. SS |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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djpats
New Member
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2012 : 23:10:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
Hemant Mehta (The Friendly Atheist) just wrote in his blog about a public school teacher displaying giant banners with "patriotic" God phrases in the classroom. After over 2 decades a principal finally made him take them down and he sued. Unsuccessfully.
The dickhead teacher was even offered by the principle to switch his ridiculous banners out for display which showed the same phrases in more appropriate, historical, and educational context, and he refused. This case is a great example of how important context is to understanding. I'm glad someone finally stopped this guy from taking advantage of his position as an authority figure over students.
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What's wrong with that? Aren't you guys the same guys trying to promote our first amendment rights (including freedom of religion, speech and expression)? Quite frankly the fact that you posted this makes no sense. Plus, whoop-de-doo, he had a poster that said something about God. I think that as long as the teacher doesn't say "You HAVE to believe in God or else I won't teach you or I'll make you get out of my classroom" the teacher has done nothing wrong. True, suing may be going overboard but then again, who cares? |
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend
Hong Kong
380 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2012 : 00:23:42 [Permalink]
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| Sorry djpast. The freedom to practice (or not) does not give one the freedom to preach or proselytize. Likewise free speach is limited to specific areas, namely private property where one has permission, or places where the public is allowed equal access (parks, streets, common areas), and provided that appropriate permissions have been granted. Not every public building is legally required to allow free speech which is why you can be shushed or excluded from the public library. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2012 : 00:44:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by djpats
Originally posted by marfknox
Hemant Mehta (The Friendly Atheist) just wrote in his blog about a public school teacher displaying giant banners with "patriotic" God phrases in the classroom. After over 2 decades a principal finally made him take them down and he sued. Unsuccessfully.
The dickhead teacher was even offered by the principle to switch his ridiculous banners out for display which showed the same phrases in more appropriate, historical, and educational context, and he refused. This case is a great example of how important context is to understanding. I'm glad someone finally stopped this guy from taking advantage of his position as an authority figure over students.
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What's wrong with that? Aren't you guys the same guys trying to promote our first amendment rights (including freedom of religion, speech and expression)? Quite frankly the fact that you posted this makes no sense. Plus, whoop-de-doo, he had a poster that said something about God. I think that as long as the teacher doesn't say "You HAVE to believe in God or else I won't teach you or I'll make you get out of my classroom" the teacher has done nothing wrong. True, suing may be going overboard but then again, who cares?
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Welcome to SFN, djpats.
What you are calling "political correctness" is not what's going on when someone complains about a violation of the first amendment in this case, because it is a violation of of the first amendment. Free expression doesn't mean anything goes. Freedom of religion doesn't mean anything goes. Because the school is a public institution, and the teacher is a representative of that institution when he's working, the first amendment forbids the teacher from pushing any religion at all. There is no hypocrisy here. It isn't about being politically correct. It's about the separation of church and state. This idea has been codified into law by precedent and upheld by the supreme court. What you are essentially saying is "whoop-de-doo" about the Constitution of the United States.
Let me ask you, djpats. What if the posters said "Allah is great." "One Nation Under Allah." Would you still have no objection to that? How about this one? "There is no God." How about "God is dead." Would that work for you? What if the teacher is a satanist? How about if he decorates with upside down crosses? Because they are all the same thing. The law is the way it is to protect everyone's religious freedom. Not to prevent it.
Now you might not care. But I kind of doubt that you've considered the door you will open, when you allow an anything goes freedom of expression with regard to religion, on classroom poster's. And if you are going to draw a line, it can't be at the point where you are personally offended. You don't get to be the judge of what has gone too far. Best case is to not go there at all. And that's what the law says. Don't go there.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend
Hong Kong
380 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2012 : 00:52:15 [Permalink]
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Good point Kil, I failed to mention not all speech itself is free. From shouting fire when there is none, to libel and slander. Many forms of speech are not protected by law.
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| Edited by - chefcrsh on 01/30/2012 00:52:43 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2012 : 06:44:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by djpats
Originally posted by marfknox
Hemant Mehta (The Friendly Atheist) just wrote in his blog about a public school teacher displaying giant banners with "patriotic" God phrases in the classroom. After over 2 decades a principal finally made him take them down and he sued. Unsuccessfully.
The dickhead teacher was even offered by the principle to switch his ridiculous banners out for display which showed the same phrases in more appropriate, historical, and educational context, and he refused. This case is a great example of how important context is to understanding. I'm glad someone finally stopped this guy from taking advantage of his position as an authority figure over students.
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What's wrong with that? Aren't you guys the same guys trying to promote our first amendment rights (including freedom of religion, speech and expression)? Quite frankly the fact that you posted this makes no sense. Plus, whoop-de-doo, he had a poster that said something about God. I think that as long as the teacher doesn't say "You HAVE to believe in God or else I won't teach you or I'll make you get out of my classroom" the teacher has done nothing wrong. True, suing may be going overboard but then again, who cares?
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Not even close.
The Americans here do promote the First Amendment. I fear you have not fully read it.
It reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Now, this Amendment's provisions are then transferred to the states through the 14th Amendment under Clause 1 where it says, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
This was then transferred to all public employees where they are acting as an agent for the government under the case Abington v Schemmp (374 US 203) in 1963 and before that by McCollum v. Board of Education (333 US 203) in 1948. These cases define that religious instruction whether active or passive are inappropriate in a classroom setting because the children are not allowed to leave and that the prostelyzation by agents of the state (public school teachers) on work hours caused an impermissible entanglement of church and state. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Teacher Forced To Take God Banners Down
