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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
 Posted - 10/06/2011 : 11:05:17
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Let's see how liberal folks really are.
This is a real situation and I'd like to see what you folks would do.
You and your buddy have been best of friends since you were young children. Your buddy got you the job where you both work. You and your buddy both make about the same amount of money. Both of you are equally smart and hardworking but the skills you have honed over the years are more lucrative than your buddy's. You and your wife have no children and are not hurting for money at all. Your buddy and his wife have four children and have a difficult time making ends meet.
An upper management position opens up in your company. The salary for the new position nearly doubles your already pretty decent salary.
Your buddy is qualified for the position but you are more qualified. You are both interested in the position.
What do you do?
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Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2011 : 11:15:09 [Permalink]
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I depends on my particular situation.
When I was looking for a job when I already had one, a buddy of mine had been told he was laid off from the company. We had applied for the same position at the new place.
They mentioned that he had already applied for the position. I urged them to hire my buddy because I was still employed. (It was for about the same money as I was making where I was.)
In this situation and my current stage of life, I'd go for the position. At this stage of my career, I am looking for opportunities to move up the ladder to management. I can always try to help my buddy develop his skills later. Upper management positions don't come around everyday. This may be your sole shot. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2011 : 11:15:17 [Permalink]
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| Take the job, Mr. buddies financial situation is entirely of his own making. Children are a serious long-term financial burden and if folks don't plan ahead properly or have children for the hell of it, that is their problem. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2011 : 11:44:40 [Permalink]
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There is no guarantee that either of you will get the job; You can't micromanage these things. If you want the job, apply for it. If you are truly most qualified, you should get the job. Remember, there are other interests at play, such as the best interests of the company you work for. Presumably, hiring the most qualified applicant benefits the whole company.
There are more appropriate ways to help a friend out who is struggling financially than screwing your own chances for maximizing your income. You could, for instance, be generous with birthday and holiday gifts for his children.
Also, this issue has nothing to do with liberal verses conservative politics. American fiscal liberals advocate public policies and programs geared to reduce disparity of income and opportunities. It says nothing about interpersonal relationships and personal choices. I can think of no public policy advocated by liberals which would prevent you from applying and competing honestly with your friend for the same promotion. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2011 : 12:16:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
There is no guarantee that either of you will get the job; You can't micromanage these things. If you want the job, apply for it. If you are truly most qualified, you should get the job. Remember, there are other interests at play, such as the best interests of the company you work for. Presumably, hiring the most qualified applicant benefits the whole company.
There are more appropriate ways to help a friend out who is struggling financially than screwing your own chances for maximizing your income. You could, for instance, be generous with birthday and holiday gifts for his children.
Also, this issue has nothing to do with liberal verses conservative politics. American fiscal liberals advocate public policies and programs geared to reduce disparity of income and opportunities. It says nothing about interpersonal relationships and personal choices. I can think of no public policy advocated by liberals which would prevent you from applying and competing honestly with your friend for the same promotion.
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True, no 100% guarantee but the first person was explicitly told by the hiring people were extremely interested in him while the second simply got a "Thanks for your time".
Why does the first guy feel so guilty? |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Hal
Skeptic Friend
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2011 : 12:26:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
Originally posted by marfknox
There is no guarantee that either of you will get the job; You can't micromanage these things. If you want the job, apply for it. If you are truly most qualified, you should get the job. Remember, there are other interests at play, such as the best interests of the company you work for. Presumably, hiring the most qualified applicant benefits the whole company.
There are more appropriate ways to help a friend out who is struggling financially than screwing your own chances for maximizing your income. You could, for instance, be generous with birthday and holiday gifts for his children.
Also, this issue has nothing to do with liberal verses conservative politics. American fiscal liberals advocate public policies and programs geared to reduce disparity of income and opportunities. It says nothing about interpersonal relationships and personal choices. I can think of no public policy advocated by liberals which would prevent you from applying and competing honestly with your friend for the same promotion.
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True, no 100% guarantee but the first person was explicitly told by the hiring people were extremely interested in him while the second simply got a "Thanks for your time".
Why does the first guy feel so guilty?
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Because he cares about his co-worker on a personal level, and regrets that his own good fortune came at his friend's expense, regardless of their individual merits? You can argue whether or not "guilt" is the appropriate sentiment, but having been in a very similar situation myself, it's not too far off from what I felt. Fortunately, most people can enjoy their own personal advances without having to dance on the ruins of their colleagues' careers.
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Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King Jr.
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2011 : 15:56:35 [Permalink]
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| Interesting dilemma. After a bit of thought and based only on the briefest background given, I'd go for the job. However I can see that other criteria not presented which could elicit a different choice. There is a big problem with any response addressing hypothetical situations. Relatively little background is given when in real life so many more factors are present and inevitably are involved in making the decision. Factors not given in a hypothetical setup. SS |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2011 : 16:14:47 [Permalink]
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Yeah, too many things to consider.
Is your buddy's financial distress his responsibility, or was it just bad circumstances? If the latter and you're feeling like he deserves a helping hand, then you shouldn't apply for the position and you should play up his skills with the decision-makers. If his trouble making ends meet is his fault, then maybe he's not cut out for the extra responsibility anyway.
If you both apply and you get the job, is he going to be bitter about it? If so, then maybe he's not such a buddy after all.
Is not getting the position going to make your buddy lose a house or anything dire like that?
How often do management positions open up? How many people apply? Is the position open to outsiders, or are promotions all in-house? Is there a lot of scuttlebutt about the position and the people who "should" get the job? Do the other people working at that level in the company have personal likes/dislikes about you and/or your buddy? Would working more closely with them make your or his jobs more hellish, even given the increased compensation?
Lots of questions.
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2011 : 18:08:36 [Permalink]
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| Ebone, even if you are currently the favored candidate, there is no guarantee that if you drop out of the running that they'll hire your friend. And then wouldn't you feel horrible! Another thing to consider - I don't know your friend, but if I had a fried who I knew was more qualified and wanted the job, and then they dropped out so I could get the job, I'd feel weird about it. Like it was pity or that I'd now be in debt to them or something. I again emphasize that you can help out a friend financially in more appropriate ways. In fact, it is possible that if you get the job, your elevated position will put you in a better position to help out your friend's career in the future. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2011 : 19:24:52 [Permalink]
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Just take the job but then give the extra money to your friend. 
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 10/06/2011 19:25:21 |
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Moral dilemma
