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jamalrapper
Sockpuppet
213 Posts |
 Posted - 02/26/2012 : 12:20:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
justintime:
Now you attack peoples faith when you find theist evolutionist applying science and growing in number to bring back god into erroneous scientific conjectures and proving god can be found in evolution. |
Scientists aren't doing that in "growing numbers." That's just silly. ID is not a growing movement in the scientific world. It's a joke. There aren't even a growing number of theists doing bilogical evolution who think that God should be brought back into the process. Not on a scientific basis anyhow. Miller has stated that his conjecture is NOT scientific.
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Kil, there is a difference between ID and theist evolutionist. By now one would think after the lengthy discussions every one participating would know that.
I provided a link from wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution. You will notice the list does not include ID proponents such as Doug Ave(biologist), Dr, Behe(biologist) who are in the ID camp.
Contemporary biologists and geologists who are Christians and theistic evolutionists include:
* Paleontologist Robert T. Bakker
* R. J. Berry, Professor of Genetics at University College London
* Microbiologist Richard G. Colling of Olivet Nazarene University, author of Random Designer: Created from Chaos to Connect with Creator
* Geneticist Francis Collins, Director of the National Institutes of Health and director of the Human Genome Project and author of The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief in which he has suggested the term BioLogos for theistic evolution. Collins is also the founder of the BioLogos Foundation.
* Biologist Darrel Falk of Point Loma Nazarene University, author of Coming to Peace with Science
* Biologist Denis Lamoureux of St. Joseph's College, University of Alberta, Canada who has co-authored with evolution critic Phillip E. Johnson Darwinism Defeated? The Johnson-Lamoureux Debate on Biological Origins (Regent College, 1999)
* Evangelical Christian and geologist Keith B. Miller of Kansas State University, who compiled an anthology Perspectives on an Evolving Creation (Eerdmans, 2003)
* Kenneth R. Miller, professor of biology at Brown University, author of Finding Darwin's God (Cliff Street Books, 1999), in which he states his belief in God and argues that "evolution is the key to understanding God" (Dr. Miller has also called himself "an orthodox Catholic and an orthodox Darwinist" in the 2001 PBS special "Evolution")
* Biologist Joan Roughgarden at Stanford University is author of various books including Evolution and Christian Faith: Reflections of an Evolutionary Biologist
* Paleobiologist Prof. Simon Conway Morris of Cambridge University, well known for his groundbreaking work on the Burgess Shale fossils and the Cambrian explosion, and author of Life's Solution: Inevitable Humans in a Lonely Universe
Philosophers, theologians, and physical scientists who have supported the evolutionary creationist model include:
* Eco-theologian Fr. Thomas Berry
* Eco-theologian and evolutionary evangelist Rev. Michael Dowd
* Fr. George Coyne of the Vatican Observatory
* Astronomer Owen Gingerich
* Physicist Karl Giberson of Eastern Nazarene College, author of several books: Worlds Apart: The Unholy War between Religion and Science, Species of Origins: America’s Search for a Creation Story, The Oracles of Science: Celebrity Scientists Versus God and Religion, and Saving Darwin.
* Theologian and New Testament scholar N.T. Wright, Anglican Bishop of Durham and contributor to the BioLogos Foundation.
* Theologian John Haught of Georgetown University.
* Biochemist and theologian Alister McGrath, Professor of Historical Theology at the University of Oxford.
* Theologian Thomas Jay Oord of Northwest Nazarene University (known for saying, "The Bible tells us how to find abundant life, not the details of how life became abundant.")
* Pope John Paul II, who is famous for praising evolutionary biology and calling its accounts of human origins "more than a hypothesis"[39]
* Ted Peters, co-author of the book Can You Believe in God And Evolution?
* Physicist and theologian Rev. John Polkinghorne of Cambridge University.
* Theologian Rev. Keith Ward, former Regius Professor of Divinity at the University of Oxford, author of God, Chance, and Necessity
* Theologian-philosopher Rev. Micha#322; Heller, professor of philosophy at the Pontifical Academy of Theology in Kraków, Poland, and an adjunct member of the Vatican Observatory staff.
* Theologian-philosopher catholic archbishop Józef #379;yci#324;ski, professor of philosophy at the Pontifical Academy of Theology in Kraków, Poland.
* Theologian Wolfhart Pannenberg, University of Munich, author of "Toward a Theology of Nature."
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2012 : 12:41:52 [Permalink]
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| I don't give a rats ass about that list. Not when over 99% of evolutionary biologists agree that god should be kept out of science classrooms. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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jamalrapper
Sockpuppet
213 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2012 : 13:10:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
I don't give a rats ass about that list. Not when over 99% of evolutionary biologists agree that god should be kept out of science classrooms.
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Kil, 60-70 % of Americans are Christians. 80% of Americans identify with some religious denomination.
Cannot get a percentage of skeptics in America.
But got 8-10% of Americans are Atheist.
You do live in a democracy. Are you going to always be bitter about fellow god fearing Americans living normal lives because you happen to
have doubts or question general conclusions in every professional field.
Remember skeptisism/skeptics is not a profession...it is not even a body of knowledge. It is an individuals subjective views and theories, an approach to the nature of knowledge.
How objective is this approach. Thresholds are different for every individual so it is a very subjective evaluation.....
Are skeptic growing in America. Not really. More Americans are disillusioned today than ever before. Obama said Americans like to cling to their guns and religion.
So what do skeptics cling to? Todays science will be replace by tomorrows good science. Christians will get their act together and not rush the second coming of christ. They realize they need to get the atheist and skeptics on board as well.
Don''t be an obstructionist....AGW is real as well. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2012 : 13:43:45 [Permalink]
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justintime:
You do live in a democracy. Are you going to always be bitter about fellow god fearing Americans living normal lives because you happen to
have doubts or question general conclusions in every professional field. |
Science should be taught in science classrooms. Metaphysics can be taught elsewhere.
justintime:
Are skeptic growing in America. Not really. |
The skeptical community has grown by leaps and bounds over the last ten years. The first Amazing Meeting (a skeptic's conference) I attended in 2005 had maybe 600 people there. Last year there were over 1600. And that's just out of those in our community that were in attendance, which is a fraction of us. In the meantime the freethinking community has grown too. And stop trying to conflate skepticism with atheism. While there is some overlap, we are not exactly the same movement.
justintime:
Remember skeptisism/skeptics is not a profession... |
Actually there are professional skeptics who conduct scientific investigations into all sorts of dubious claims.
justintime:
it is not even a body of knowledge. |
Right. It's a method for evaluating claims of a dubious nature.
justintime:
How objective is this approach. |
As objective as critical thinking, logic and science will allow. In other words, I don't know of a more objective approach.
The deniers of AGW are not skeptics. They are deniers. There's a difference even if they use the same word that we use to describe ourselves. It's the deniers claims that we are skeptical of.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2012 : 14:04:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by jamalrapper
Now you attack peoples faith when you find theist evolutionist applying science and growing in number to bring back god into erroneous scientific conjectures and proving god can be found in evolution. |
Wow, that is one strained argument. I didn't "attack people's faith," I called you out on a blatant lie. Christians subscribe to commandments which prohibit them from lying. Thus, I can deduce you are not a true Christian. You don't walk as someone who knows god.
Trying to change the topic to evolution won't make your dishonesty go away. It just puts more of a spotlight on your deceptive tactics.
Why would anyone listen to what a proven liar like yourself has to say? Your credibility is gone.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2012 : 18:23:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by jamalrapper
Kil, 60-70 % of Americans are Christians. 80% of Americans identify with some religious denomination.
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I accept that god beliefs are consoling.
Originally posted by jamalrapper
Cannot get a percentage of skeptics in America.
But got 8-10% of Americans are Atheist.
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Doesn't matter.
Originally posted by jamalrapper
You do live in a democracy.
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Constitutional republic. We try to protect the rights of minorities from the tyranny of the majority. Sometimes it takes a while, but hopefully we will continue to try to get that right. But that's another discussion.
Originally posted by jamalrapper
So what do skeptics cling to? Todays science will be replace by tomorrows good science.
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How do we measure the god effect on naturally occurring phenomenon? But really your initial problem is one of definition.
Originally posted by jamalrapper
Christians will get their act together and not rush the second coming of christ. They realize they need to get the atheist and skeptics on board as well.
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Bulloney. Jesus was just another apopcalypticist who got his end of times prediction wrong. Mt. 24 However, I'm sure there is an apolgetic that tells me that I do not know how to read. But that is another debate as well.
Originally posted by jamalrapper
AGW is real as well.
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I don't believe anyone here is arguing that it is not. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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jamalrapper
Sockpuppet
213 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2012 : 19:17:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by moakley
Originally posted by jamalrapper
Kil, 60-70 % of Americans are Christians. 80% of Americans identify with some religious denomination.
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I accept that god beliefs are consoling.
Originally posted by jamalrapper
Cannot get a percentage of skeptics in America.
But got 8-10% of Americans are Atheist.
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Doesn't matter.
Originally posted by jamalrapper
You do live in a democracy.
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Constitutional republic. We try to protect the rights of minorities from the tyranny of the majority. Sometimes it takes a while, but hopefully we will continue to try to get that right. But that's another discussion.
Originally posted by jamalrapper
So what do skeptics cling to? Todays science will be replace by tomorrows good science.
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How do we measure the god effect on naturally occurring phenomenon? But really your initial problem is one of definition.
Originally posted by jamalrapper
Christians will get their act together and not rush the second coming of christ. They realize they need to get the atheist and skeptics on board as well.
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Bulloney. Jesus was just another apopcalypticist who got his end of times prediction wrong. Mt. 24 However, I'm sure there is an apolgetic that tells me that I do not know how to read. But that is another debate as well.
Originally posted by jamalrapper
AGW is real as well.
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I don't believe anyone here is arguing that it is not.
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The Bible says no one will know when the second coming will occur. But with high percentage of believing Christians both in America and in the world at about 33%. That second coming is still a ways away. |
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jamalrapper
Sockpuppet
213 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2012 : 19:27:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by jamalrapper
Now you attack peoples faith when you find theist evolutionist applying science and growing in number to bring back god into erroneous scientific conjectures and proving god can be found in evolution. |
Wow, that is one strained argument. I didn't "attack people's faith," I called you out on a blatant lie. Christians subscribe to commandments which prohibit them from lying. Thus, I can deduce you are not a true Christian. You don't walk as someone who knows god.
Trying to change the topic to evolution won't make your dishonesty go away. It just puts more of a spotlight on your deceptive tactics.
Why would anyone listen to what a proven liar like yourself has to say? Your credibility is gone.
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Everyone is talking about credibility here but still getting their knickers twisted in a knot. The truth is supposed to set you free. There is so much of hating going on here. It has to be the discussion on science/evolution that is doing it.
Even you avatar appears to be flogging the truth. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2012 : 20:29:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by jamalrapper
The Bible says no one will know when the second coming will occur. |
Then the Bible disagrees with Jesus in Matthew 24:34. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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jamalrapper
Sockpuppet
213 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2012 : 00:29:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by jamalrapper
The Bible says no one will know when the second coming will occur. |
Then the Bible disagrees with Jesus in Matthew 24:34.
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You are missing a whole ton of stuff before getting to Mathew 24:34.
You should start with Mather 24:1
Jesus begins to explain to his disciples the gloom and doom awaiting the world "what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
Then Jesus goes to explain what signs to look for. Wars, pestilence, false prophets, the anti-christ.
Mathew 24:34 Jesus says it will happen in his life time. Then corrects himself in Mathew 24:36. For getting ahead of himself. If he did not check/correct himself....true we would not be discussing this.
No one will know of that day only his Father.
Mathew 24:36 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Yes it is a famous verse many use to question Jesus fallacy. But a lot gets lost in translation and skipping verses. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2012 : 06:39:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by jamalrapper
Jesus begins to explain to his disciples the gloom and doom awaiting the world "what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
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Yes it is a famous verse many use to question Jesus fallacy. But a lot gets lost in translation and skipping verses.
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He describes a lot of events that will come to pass in direct response to the question of his disciples Mt 24:3. Still addressing his disciples all the way through
- Mt 24.33 "even though when you see these things you will know that it is near, right at the door." Still talking to his disciples.
- Mt 24:34 "Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Still talking to his disciples.
- Mt 24:42 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come." Still talking to his disciples.
Yep. Just another apopcalypticist. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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jamalrapper
Sockpuppet
213 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2012 : 07:10:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by moakley
Originally posted by jamalrapper
Jesus begins to explain to his disciples the gloom and doom awaiting the world "what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
...
Yes it is a famous verse many use to question Jesus fallacy. But a lot gets lost in translation and skipping verses.
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He describes a lot of events that will come to pass in direct response to the question of his disciples Mt 24:3. Still addressing his disciples all the way through
- Mt 24.33 "even though when you see these things you will know that it is near, right at the door." Still talking to his disciples.
- Mt 24:34 "Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Still talking to his disciples.
- Mt 24:42 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come." Still talking to his disciples.
Yep. Just another apopcalypticist.
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You forget the Rapture, moakley. It is not all gloom and doom. Imagine receiving salvation, redemption and eternal life in one momentous rapture.
I see barbecue in your future moakley. One overdone bugger. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2012 : 08:19:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by jamalrapper
You forget the Rapture, moakley. It is not all gloom and doom. Imagine receiving salvation, redemption and eternal life in one momentous rapture. |
Eternal life in Heaven is gloom and doom. It's a horrible, soul-crushing idea. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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jamalrapper
Sockpuppet
213 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2012 : 08:38:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by jamalrapper
Then corrects himself... |
So Jesus was only human?
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He was a man, the son of god and the holy ghost.
Yes his divinity and mission was to come to the world as a man, and be among mankind. Jesus had to sacrifice himself.
John 3:16 ""For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
hallelujah brother!!!!! |
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God's "shyness" makes ID hard to prove?
