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Machi4velli
SFN Regular
USA
854 Posts |
 Posted - 04/07/2012 : 21:10:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Machi4velli
I had to have a reasonable fear for my safety. It's not reasonable to fear for my safety without something out of the ordinary occurring (e.g. someone running at me with a knife, cocked fist, or samurai sword). |
Mere safety, or your life? Is there a difference? What is "great bodily harm," anyway? |
I imagine it's written as life, but I'm comfortable saying life instead of safety.
| There's no threat to my safety after this has happened, it's already over, and I can drive away. |
Not necessarily.
One sunny day, I was driving on an empty section of six-lane highway (three lanes each way). I was in the middle lane, traffic ahead of me was at least a quarter-mile away, and traffic behind me was maybe half that. I was doing 60 in a 55 zone, and came up to a curve clearly marked with a maximum safe speed of 50. Having driven this route a zillion times, I kept at 60 anyway.
Halfway around the curve, I notice a guy in a white Mustang convertible (top down) has broken free of the pack way behind me and is coming up fast, also in the middle lane. Near the end of the curve, he dives into the right lane to pass me at at least 70, and then cuts me off as he dives back into the center lane. Then he gave me the finger (wtf?) and stomped on the gas even more.
I think at this point, Val would agree that the guy was both irrational and aggressive towards me, and that it would have been stupid of me to not shoot the guy to ensure that he didn't do me further harm. For all I knew, he was going to be hiding around the next curve - the Capitol Beltway has a lot of sharp turns on it for a super-highway - waiting to ram my little Celica with his massive American-steel beast of a car. |
Well I don't agree if he's already gone, the expectation that they will attack again isn't enough (and it's not really an attack). You have the ability to get away in your car.
| Yeah, both he and his car were bigger and stronger than me and mine. I was probably younger than he was though. These things seem to matter to Val's calculus, at least. |
Well that's irrelevant to me -- Bruce Lee was a small guy, but dangerous!
| I can't necessarily get away from an attack when standing on the sidewalk. |
You can't necessarily get away from an attack anywhere. Cars aren't built for dodging, and it's always possible you'll blow a tire at just the wrong time. So if necessarily being able to escape is one of your criteria for a shoot/no-shoot decision, it's a bad one to use to differentiate between sidewalks and cars. It's a bad one to use in any situation I can dream up, actually, since there's always a possibility that one will trip, or the engine will seize up, or the trapdoor to the panic room will malfunction, or a strap on the parachute will get caught on the doorframe of the airplane... There's no way to ensure escape from anywhere, ever. |
I don't think it has to be guaranteed, as an expectation of guaranteed escape is not reasonable ever. But it's much much easier to corner a person on foot than to corner them on the road. Again, it goes to the mythical, but often used, legal rational person. |
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking
"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus |
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podcat
Skeptic Friend
435 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2012 : 00:50:35 [Permalink]
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In a press conference Tuesday afternoon (4/10), the lawyers for George Zimmerman announced they were withdrawing as counsel because they were unable to contact him since Sunday.
According to rumor, Zimmerman has had an off-the-record conversation with conservative radio host Sean Hannity, though. |
“In a modern...society, everybody has the absolute right to believe whatever they damn well please, but they don't have the same right to be taken seriously”.
-Barry Williams, co-founder, Australian Skeptics |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2012 : 05:41:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by podcat
In a press conference Tuesday afternoon (4/10), the lawyers for George Zimmerman announced they were withdrawing as counsel because they were unable to contact him since Sunday.
According to rumor, Zimmerman has had an off-the-record conversation with conservative radio host Sean Hannity, though.
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That implies some very serious kind of attitude problem on Zimmerman's part. He may be his own worst enemy. This might encourage prosecutors to think a guilty verdict is possible. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2012 : 15:53:34 [Permalink]
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| According to NPR, the special prosecutor filed second-degree murder charges against Zimmerman and procured an arrest warrant. Zimmerman turned himself in less than an hour ago, and is now in custody at an undisclosed location for his safety. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2012 : 17:54:49 [Permalink]
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Right! Per CNN:Florida neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman has been charged with second-degree murder in the death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin and is in custody, a special prosecutor announced Wednesday.
Zimmerman, 28, was arrested on a warrant and was in the custody of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, his new attorney, Mark O'Mara, told CNN legal analyst Mark NeJame.
What happens next
The charges were announced in Jacksonville by prosecutor Angela Corey, who has said her job was "to find out the full truth" about the February 26 incident in Sanford.
"It is the search for justice for Trayvon that has brought us to this moment," Corey told reporters. "We did not come to this decision lightly."
. . . |
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 10:27:44 [Permalink]
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How Not To Draft A Probable Cause Affidavit:I'm in a rush, but I can't avoid commenting on the affidavit of probable cause submitted in the matter of George Zimmerman's shooting of Trayvon Martin.
It's a piece of crap. In other words, the basis for Zimmerman's arrest was a big turd of a legal document, and should have been chucked out by the judge. However, while an improper search warrant can result in evidence being thrown out of a trial and thus possibly capsize a prosecutor's case, it appears that there's not much a person can do to correct an improper arrest warrant. After all, if a proper affidavit can be written, would the police release a suspect and then re-arrest him on the spot under the new warrant? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2012 : 21:46:56 [Permalink]
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| It's weird: I'm so used to hearing about black people being mistakenly shot and killed with no harsh consequences for the shooter that this stuff with Zimmerman feels kind of surreal. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2012 : 03:14:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
It's weird: I'm so used to hearing about black people being mistakenly shot and killed with no harsh consequences for the shooter that this stuff with Zimmerman feels kind of surreal.
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We should never let the surreality of justice keep us from demanding it. It took a lot of public pressure just to get an arrest and prosecution in this case. The more I learn about Zimmerman, the more sure I am that he needs to be stopped. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2012 : 01:51:56 [Permalink]
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Now, Zimmerman has done an interview on Fox.
| Hannity asked Zimmerman if he regretted getting out of his car to follow Trayvon, carrying a gun, or anything at all about the night he killed Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman said he regretted nothing because he believed "it was all God’s plan." He also said there isn't anything he would do differently in retrospect. |
Oh but wait:
At the very end of the interview, Zimmerman goes back and to the question and says “I do wish there was something, anything I could have done that would have put me in the position where I didn’t have to take his life. And I do want to tell everyone…that I’m sorry that this happened.”
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However as one commentator pointed out:
Barbara Weber Eltz · Fargo, North Dakota
There IS something he could have done to not be in that position. Listen to the dispatcher and STAY IN HIS CAR. |
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2012 : 02:28:02 [Permalink]
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| Zimmerman's head was all banged up right? Did Martin have any injuries other than the gunshot? |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2012 : 06:09:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
Zimmerman's head was all banged up right? Did Martin have any injuries other than the gunshot?
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A bit late to this party, aren't we OFfC?
Martin's injuries were not really listed as the major one was enough to take his life.
The point here is that Zimmerman persued a retreating Martin until Martin was no longer willing to retreat whereby, most likely, Martin defended himself. Zimmerman took the opportunity to shoot him after Zimmerman started losing the physical confrontation.
Remember, Martin had no duty to retreat and could stand his ground as well. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf
USA
1487 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2012 : 06:59:50 [Permalink]
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| Do anything you want, no matter how unethical, as it's all part of God's plan. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2012 : 07:04:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by ThorGoLucky
Do anything you want, no matter how unethical, as it's all part of God's plan.
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God as the theist's scapegoat. Since he's imaginary, he can do anything. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Unarmed Trayvon Martin gunned down
