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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
 Posted - 04/11/2012 : 10:29:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
There's nothing "wrong" with them per se. There is a great deal of technical skill. But the subjects are saccharine and immature. A bit twee. A bit inane. Basically pop culture kitsch churned out en masse and sold at absurd markups to unsophisticated consumers. Kinkaid paintings are the art equivalent of Wonder Bread.
[emphasis mine-Fripp]
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Absolutely spot-on analysis. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Baxter
Skeptic Friend
USA
131 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2012 : 10:36:35 [Permalink]
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| If he wasn't selling to a mainly Christian market, I doubt his work would have garnered as much popularity. |
"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." ~from Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey
"We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know." ~Robert G. Ingersoll
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Convinced
Skeptic Friend
USA
384 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2012 : 11:34:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Okay. Kinkade had technical skills. But that doesn't by any means make him an artist. His paintings, put simply, did not challenge the average viewer or make them think. Instead, he gave them exactly what they wanted and lots of it. |
What’s wrong with giving something people want? So what are the criteria for someone to be an artist in your view? Does art always have to challenge people are can some art just be enjoyed by the viewer?
| He essentially felt his buyers were clueless, tasteless saps. He made a great deal of money, because that's what they were. I'd call him the PT Barnum of art, except that Barnum was more honest and had better business ethics. |
How was Kinkaid dishonest?
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Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17) |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2012 : 12:26:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
You said that better than I had. More succinct, and less ranting, yet spot on in the observations.
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I appreciated your longer explanation as well, especially the link to the Wikipedia article regarding kitsch. I'm sure I'm not alone in noticing how Christian message boards tend to be absolutely infested with kitsch. Pictures of baby animals, cartoons of angelic children, cartoons of childish angels, flashing .gifs of rainbows and sunsets and misty waterfalls. What's the connection to kitsch and the devoutly religious?
That wiki link explains things pretty well, and especially notes how there is often little distinction between kitsch and propaganda: The Czech writer Milan Kundera, in his book The Unbearable Lightness of Being, defined it as "the absolute denial of shit". He wrote that kitsch functions by excluding from view everything that humans find difficult with which to come to terms, offering instead a sanitized view of the world, in which "all answers are given in advance and preclude any questions."
In its desire to paper over the complexities and contradictions of real life, kitsch, Kundera suggested, is intimately linked with totalitarianism. In a healthy democracy, diverse interest groups compete and negotiate with one another to produce a generally acceptable consensus; by contrast, "everything that infringes on kitsch," including individualism, doubt, and irony, "must be banished for life" in order for kitsch to survive. Therefore, Kundera wrote, "Whenever a single political movement corners power we find ourselves in the realm of totalitarian kitsch." |
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 04/11/2012 12:28:45 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2012 : 12:36:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Convinced
How was Kinkaid dishonest? |
Basically he encouraged people to invest in his franchise of "galleries" (usually stores in malls) that would sell prints of his paintings at huge markups, but misled investors on the economic viability of these endeavors. Criticism of business practices: Kinkade's company, Media Arts Group Inc., has been accused of unfair dealings with owners of Thomas Kinkade Signature Gallery franchises. In 2006, an arbitration board awarded Karen Hazlewood and Jeffrey Spinello $860,000 in damages and $1.2 million in fees and expenses due to Kinkade's company "[failing] to disclose material information" that would have discouraged them from investing in the gallery. The award was later increased to $2.8 million with interest and legal fees. The plaintiffs and other former gallery owners have also leveled accusations of being pressured to open additional galleries that were not financially viable, being forced to take on expensive, unsalable inventory, and being undercut by discount outlets whose prices they were not allowed to match.
Kinkade denied the accusations and Media Arts Group successfully defended itself in previous suits by other former gallery owners. Kinkade himself was not singled out in the finding of fraud by the arbitration board.
In August 2006, the Los Angeles Times reported that the FBI was investigating these issues, with agents from offices across the country conducting interviews.
Former gallery dealers also charged that Kinkade uses Christianity as a tool to take advantage of people. "They really knew how to bait the hook," said one ex-dealer who spoke on condition of anonymity. "They certainly used the Christian hook." One former dealer's lawyer stated "Most of my clients got involved with Kinkade because it was presented as a religious opportunity. Being defrauded is awful enough, but doing it in the name of God is really despicable." On June 2, 2010, Pacific Metro, the artist's production company, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, one day after defaulting on a $1 million court imposed payment to the aforementioned Karen Hazlewood and Jeffrey Spinello. A $500,000 payment had previously been disbursed.
During the years 1997 through 2005, court documents show at least 350 independently owned Kinkade franchises at its peak. By May 2005, that number had more than halved. Kinkade received $50 million during this period. An initial cash investment of $80,000 to $150,000 is listed as a startup cost for franchisees. |
Note how Kinkade leveraged Christian piousness in his marketing to engender trust. The man certainly knew how to manipulate his fan base.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 04/11/2012 12:45:02 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2012 : 00:51:59 [Permalink]
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| There's a huge and wonderful collection here of "improved" Kinkade paintings. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/14/2012 00:54:25 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2012 : 10:28:52 [Permalink]
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Convinced:
What’s wrong with giving something people want? So what are the criteria for someone to be an artist in your view? Does art always have to challenge people are can some art just be enjoyed by the viewer? |
There's nothing wrong with giving people what they want. That's what motel art is, and that's what Kinkade's art was. (Well, actually, Kinkade's art is too garish for a motel. Sea scapes that become a pleasant backdrop are more for motels.) I happen to like kitch for kitch sake. Not because I think it's great art, but because it isn't. An Elvis in his jumpsuit painted on black felt is truly awful. And that's exactly what draws me to it. Like Kinkade's paintings, it's a train wreck. It's so stupid that it's wonderful. I appreciate Ed Wood films in the same way. Sometimes awful art makes a statement about culture that shouldn't be ignored. And in that way, Kinkade's paintings really are challenging. But I think it might take someone with a perverse a sense of humor to see the paintings that way. It almost scares me that people like them for what they are, without considering what they represent. How anyone can think such garish art is as beautiful as a Monet, I'll never know. But in truth, I don't feel particularly challenged by Monet's art, as revolutionary as it was. What I see a beautiful painting, and that has value too.
But let's face it. Kinkade was more of a business man than an artist. In that way, he might have been Andy Warhol's dream (or nightmare) come true. Art reduced to nothing more than a commodity with only an eye on sales. Worthless schmaltz with a big price tag that actually sells! I think Warhol would have loved the idea of a Kinkade.
My ex wife once had a stand at the Laguna Art festival. She was selling motel art. Well.. It wasn't really selling. Not until she tripled the price for the crap. Then people took an interest in it and she sold out. A clever move on her part, don't you think?
My sister has art on her walls that is neither bad nor good. That's where I draw the line. It has to be one or the other for me to like it. There has to be something to draw me to it.
 I pulled this out of someones trash several years ago. Can you believe that something this wonderful wound up in a trashcan? |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 00:35:06 [Permalink]
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Turns out that Thomas Kinkade died due to ingesting a combination of alcohol and Valium. According to a report released by the Santa Clara, CA Medical Examiner's office:| The report cited "acute ethanol and diazepam intoxication" as the cause of death and "accidental" as the manner of death. |
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 07:10:05 [Permalink]
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Yet another hypocrite "Christian" with a substance abuse problem  ...
I'm so surprised.
(cue the Jesus-freaks to reply with their typical defensiveness) |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 09:29:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Fripp
Yet another hypocrite "Christian" with a substance abuse problem ...
I'm so surprised.
(cue the Jesus-freaks to reply with their typical defensiveness)
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Just out of curiosity. Why is it hypocritical for a Christian to have a drug abuse problem? |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 10:49:11 [Permalink]
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Would you not agree that many christians love to point the finger of accusation regarding "moral-values-personal-responsibility"? How many times have we heard about the moral decline of America due to our "moving away from God"? David Mabus and Rush Limbaugh come to mind.
It's hypocritical to preach about Christian values on one hand and to abuse alcohol and Valium on the other. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 13:52:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Fripp
Would you not agree that many christians love to point the finger of accusation regarding "moral-values-personal-responsibility"? How many times have we heard about the moral decline of America due to our "moving away from God"? David Mabus and Rush Limbaugh come to mind.
It's hypocritical to preach about Christian values on one hand and to abuse alcohol and Valium on the other.
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Almost everyone preaches against self destructive behavior like alcohol and drug abuse. I just don't see the hypocrisy unless Kinkade himself made it an issue of his. Mabus is a psycho, and Limbaugh really is a hypocrite. So are those priests who molested children and the homophobic gay ministers who turned out to be gay. But you're painting with a pretty broad brush to suggest that every Christian is expected to be perfect or they are being hypocritical. In fact, they are expected to be imperfect, being born in sin and all...
I'm not defending that concept or the religion. I think it's baloney. I'm just saying that even most Christians get that people are human. Most Christians are not fundamentalists. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 15:31:53 [Permalink]
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| This page lays out the case for his hypocrisy far better than I could. 'Nuff said. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 16:15:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Fripp
This page lays out the case for his hypocrisy far better than I could. 'Nuff said.
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I'll grant you that he was a conman and a cynical in his approach to art and business. But that was fairly well known. In fact, okay, he was a hypocrite. But not because he professed to being Christian, but because he used Christianity for personal gain. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2012 : 16:58:17 [Permalink]
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| My issue with him wasn't because he professed to be a Christian; it was because he didn't "walk the walk". I have the utmost respect to those who do "practice what they preach". For example, from what I've seen, Tebow does "walk the walk". Most of the furor surrounding him (Tebow) arose from those around him have said and claimed, like his pastor. I have the highest respect for Tebow and his humbleness, his missionary work, his willingness to give back to others, his commitment to abstinence in all it's forms, etc. To me, that says a lot more than, say a Rick Perry or a Newt Gingrich |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Kitsch "artist" Thomas Kinkade dies at 54
