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truthbeshared
New Member
1 Post |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2012 : 23:03:07 [Permalink]
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Okay. I ran this by Michelle. Here was her response:
I don't know how to answer that one. And I don't really get the whole "you tell me" aspect of it. SOME people think it's pseudo science. SOME people think it's pretty accurate. Some people do some people don't. I think it's really up to the poster to figure out on his/her own about how he/she feels. No one is using it as "diagnosis." It's a jumping off point at best. I'm more interested in why it matters so much to this person?
Put it this way. It's like trying to start a debate about the Joe Schmo Hammer. Does it work for you? Then it's a good hammer. If it doesn't work for me than I am not going to use it. And it really isn't a huge controversy. It's a personality test. At best it is just one of many tools that a therapist might use in a battery of all these other tests to help assess who's sitting in front of them...by asking them, "Who are you?"
When I am assessing for suicide there are a group of very important questions that I ask that person. All therapists ask these same questions. And it's self report to help me assess the person's suicidality. And no one asks whether those questions are valid or testable or whatever. The only way we have to find out about our clients is to ask them questions. Some therapists find this specific list of questions helps them. Others don't.
I don't get off on personality tests. But that doesn't mean there isn't something valid in them. And just because there's something valid in them doesn't mean they are sooo important. I just don't know anyone that holds a serious opinion on them really. I dunno |
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 06/03/2012 : 05:34:36 [Permalink]
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I tested doing the personality-test from the "free copy" link.
It identified me as INTJ though I can also identify with many of the descriptions of ISTJ.
I thought the description was spookily accurate.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2012 : 10:44:15 [Permalink]
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| I think it's ridiculous to think that all people can be pigeonholed into one of 16 "personality types." That's about as oversimplified as classifying skin color into the categories of white, black, red and yellow. It is a brown paper bag test of personality, at best. There are nuances and subtleties that MBTI necessarily overlooks, and so it should not be considered as more than (as Michelle put it) "a jumping-off point" to a more thorough investigation of a person's personality. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2012 : 11:33:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
I think it's ridiculous to think that all people can be pigeonholed into one of 16 "personality types." That's about as oversimplified as classifying skin color into the categories of white, black, red and yellow. It is a brown paper bag test of personality, at best. There are nuances and subtleties that MBTI necessarily overlooks, and so it should not be considered as more than (as Michelle put it) "a jumping-off point" to a more thorough investigation of a person's personality.
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Yeah. Her point is that it can be of value as an assist, which envolves many other methods. It's not meant to be taken by itself. And to a larger extent it's ment to start a dialog, which is important. It's not a diagnostic tool. And anyone using it that way is using it wrong.
She does go on to explane some flaws in the Brian Dunning article. I'll post them if anyone is interested. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2012 : 02:40:38 [Permalink]
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| There's a strong opposition to ideas like this because some people simply hate to be categorized. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2012 : 03:36:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
There's a strong opposition to ideas like this because some people simply hate to be categorized.
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Especially if the categorization is questionable. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Hal
Skeptic Friend
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2012 : 06:00:30 [Permalink]
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I've been subjected to these things at various corporate "team building" activities. I understand that quite a lot of thought and research goes into its construction, and I don't question that, but as for utility?? I've never seen anything revealed in my results, or anyone else's, that wasn't patently obvious to anyone even casually acquainted with the subject. In these settings, it comes across as a party game; with no controls for confirmation bias, we all shared our results like horoscopes and fortune cookies. Oh, that is you to a tee!
I imagine that a professional therapist or counselor might be able to make good use of these tests as a "jumping off point," as noted above, if for no other reason than it might provide a quick personality profile of an unfamiliar patient.
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| Edited by - Hal on 07/12/2012 06:01:05 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2012 : 09:52:44 [Permalink]
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If I recall from some grad classes I took a long time ago, the rest is quite reliable in terms of someone taking it at one point and then taking it again at another point and coming up with the same (or similar) results.
And while trying to limit personalities to 16 groups is perhaps far-fetched, I am believe that there is some validity in some of it. Some people are more extroverted than others and some people are more inclined to be neater rather than messier (compare my wife's desktop-- the literal one and the computer one). And with those data, it can be possible to, say, point on in a direction of job options if one is thinking about a career. For instance, my being quite introverted would make a horrible car salesman. If I were younger and went to a career center, someone could give me an MBTI and figure out to some rough degree what my personality type was and guide me to some career paths over others. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2012 : 11:34:17 [Permalink]
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Myers Briggs tests don't really categorize people into 16 separate types in the sense that people get a score some along a scale for each of the 4 dichotomimes. So within a group of people who technically score as one type, there are those within that group who score much more extreme in any of the four dichotomies, and those who are more toward the center of each scale. In this way, a person who is classified as one type might actually score more similarly to a person who is classified as a different type than they do to a person with the same type classification.
I like what Michelle said using the hammer metaphor. I have an aunt who worked in personnel her whole career (she's since retired) and she absolutely swears by Myers-Briggs and has found an in-depth understanding of the personality types hugely helpful in her dealing with people both professional and personally. Basically she learned all the dichotomies so well now that when she meets someone new she starts to analyze their personality type based on their behavior, and then uses her analysis to respond to them more effectively and also to help predict their reactions to certain situations. My husband had to take a Myers-Briggs personality test for a class recently, and my aunt accurately guessed what type he was. And when my husband read about his type he was creeped out by how much it explained about his motivations and behavior in certain situations. Frankly I also found the info rather helpful as his wife.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2012 : 11:54:03 [Permalink]
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I had to take one of these personality tests for my old job once. It was basically a huge list of 100 or so adjectives like "assertive," "bashful," "lazy," "motivated," etc, and we were supposed to check mark the ones that applied to ourselves. But I felt I could be all of things, depending on the context. Sometimes I'm assertive, sometimes I'm reticent. It all depends on the situation. So I ended up checking everything.
After the test was over, we had to meet with the test administrator one-on-one for our evaluation. The first thing she said to me was "Well, I see you didn't take this test very seriously." I immediately protested that I had taken the test seriously and explained my reasons for answering in the manner which I did. I even entertained the possibility that checking every adjective might itself reveal something important about my character, but apparently my responses rendered the test useless. I clearly sensed that she was angry with me for "breaking the rules" and she dismissed me pretty quickly.
I few months later, I lost my job due to company downsizing. I have no reason to believe the test played any role in that decision (in fact I clearly remember being told that our test results would not affect our employment), but I guess I'll really never know what she ending up writing in my file.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 07/12/2012 12:02:46 |
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Myers-Briggs Type Indicator
