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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
 Posted - 10/24/2012 : 22:24:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by HalfMooner
(Nobody ever really wins an argument with Dave W., anyway. Dave wears down his opposition with both quality and quantity... |
That's not true. Ask H. Humbert. |
It's not true. There's often very little quality.
I keed! I usually find myself agreeing with Dave W., so refresh my memory. I can't recall a specific instance. |
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2012 : 23:02:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
I usually find myself agreeing with Dave W., so refresh my memory. I can't recall a specific instance. |
I'm remembering the time I was trying my damndest to defend free will against determinism. If I remember correctly (and that's questionable, of course), you were one of the primary reasons I ditched my last hopes of not being a billiard ball. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2012 : 00:28:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by H. Humbert
I usually find myself agreeing with Dave W., so refresh my memory. I can't recall a specific instance. |
I'm remembering the time I was trying my damndest to defend free will against determinism. If I remember correctly (and that's questionable, of course), you were one of the primary reasons I ditched my last hopes of not being a billiard ball.
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It's funny you say that, because I'm not sure I am a determinist. The whole free will discussion is something I keep meaning to bring up when I have the time. I have a lot of thoughts of been mulling over for awhile.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2012 : 04:34:43 [Permalink]
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| My slogan: "Atheism Period: Less [ful]filling." |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Hal
Skeptic Friend
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2012 : 05:08:00 [Permalink]
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Centuries upon centuries of people fighting over what kind of deists we should be; enough to convince me to write it all off as self-evident nonsense. And now we get to argue over atheistic denominations. Huzzah!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2012 : 08:03:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
My slogan: "Atheism Period: Less [ful]filling."
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2012 : 10:05:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
It's funny you say that, because I'm not sure I am a determinist. The whole free will discussion is something I keep meaning to bring up when I have the time. I have a lot of thoughts of been mulling over for awhile. |
A trip down memory lane shows it was dv82matt and bloody_peasant who changed my mind. You were involved in that thread, but in favor of free will. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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AnthroGeek
New Member
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2012 : 11:54:30 [Permalink]
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I don't see A+ covering anything that a label of "progressive atheist" would not cover other than adding confusion. Dave mentioned that the term should be like "wristwatch", in that the compound of the word clearly denotes a difference between the words "wrist" and "watch". I do not see how the word "plus" says anything clearly, much less so the adopted symbol of A+ which seems to carry the liked pretentious assertion of "brights" - whether intended of not.
I just do not see the need for the label. Hell, I don't even see atheism as a movement; much less that of one that swells forth in waves. Then again, I am oft clueless and wrong-minded on many things.
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A series of fun one-liners about various pseudoscientific claims and, even better, a concise description of the scientific method - Ken Feder on Skeptic Friends Network from "Frauds, Myths and Mysteries" |
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Hal
Skeptic Friend
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2012 : 12:01:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by AnthroGeek
I don't see A+ covering anything that a label of "progressive atheist" would not cover other than adding confusion. Dave mentioned that the term should be like "wristwatch", in that the compound of the word clearly denotes a difference between the words "wrist" and "watch". I do not see how the word "plus" says anything clearly, much less so the adopted symbol of A+ which seems to carry the liked pretentious assertion of "brights" - whether intended of not.
I just do not see the need for the label. Hell, I don't even see atheism as a movement; much less that of one that swells forth in waves. Then again, I am oft clueless and wrong-minded on many things.
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Who knew that not believing in something required so much effort?
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AnthroGeek
New Member
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2012 : 12:15:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Hal
Originally posted by AnthroGeek
"said some stuff"
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Who knew that not believing in something required so much effort?
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I just think the people at FtB and the others who wish to use the term "atheist plus" are more political than atheist. One does have to be atheist to understand that fellow humans should be treated with respect and that society should give ample opportunity and reward to all.
They have so much on their plate - much to which I agree on - that atheism, while in the name, takes the back seat to other issues. It come more off more to me as politics plus atheism than atheism plus politics.
Why not "Humanism Plus"? "H+" woulds even look good on a T-shirt or beer mug. |
A series of fun one-liners about various pseudoscientific claims and, even better, a concise description of the scientific method - Ken Feder on Skeptic Friends Network from "Frauds, Myths and Mysteries" |
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf
USA
1487 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2012 : 13:59:12 [Permalink]
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I like the A+ thing and put it on my website http://thorgolucky.com along side the original A. To me, A+ is skeptical atheism and social justice. I prefer the A+ moniker over humanism.
Originally posted by AnthroGeek
Why not "Humanism Plus"? "H+" woulds even look good on a T-shirt or beer mug. |
It would be confused with a hydrogen ion.  |
| Edited by - ThorGoLucky on 10/25/2012 14:00:54 |
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AnthroGeek
New Member
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2012 : 14:24:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by ThorGoLucky
I like the A+ thing and put it on my website http://thorgolucky.com along side the original A. To me, A+ is skeptical atheism and social justice. I prefer the A+ moniker over humanism.
Originally posted by AnthroGeek
Why not "Humanism Plus"? "H+" woulds even look good on a T-shirt or beer mug. |
It would be confused with a hydrogen ion.
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I am personally into wanking plus - its a lot like regular masturbation, but I care about others while I do it.
W+: wanking for a cause.
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A series of fun one-liners about various pseudoscientific claims and, even better, a concise description of the scientific method - Ken Feder on Skeptic Friends Network from "Frauds, Myths and Mysteries" |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2012 : 14:27:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by AnthroGeek
Why not "Humanism Plus"? |
Some of us prefer to avoid the label "humanist."| It come more off more to me as politics plus atheism than atheism plus politics. |
As explained above, the idea is that atheism serves as the basis for the need for social justice activism, not the other way around. Yes, most A+ers are focused on the politics, but it's the atheism that provides the motivation.| Hell, I don't even see atheism as a movement; much less that of one that swells forth in waves. |
Movement atheism is the fight for "I'm an atheist" to be met with indifference instead of indignation. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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AnthroGeek
New Member
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2012 : 14:33:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by AnthroGeek
Why not "Humanism Plus"? |
Some of us prefer to avoid the label "humanist."| It come more off more to me as politics plus atheism than atheism plus politics. |
As explained above, the idea is that atheism serves as the basis for the need for social justice activism, not the other way around. Yes, most A+ers are focused on the politics, but it's the atheism that provides the motivation.| Hell, I don't even see atheism as a movement; much less that of one that swells forth in waves. |
Movement atheism is the fight for "I'm an atheist" to be met with indifference instead of indignation.
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I really don't disagree. I believe self identity is very important with regards to self or a movement.
People are free to label themselves as they see fit. In fact, I think it is very important to do so.
I just do see the label as explaining anything new or clearing up misconceptions about what a skeptic or atheist is. |
A series of fun one-liners about various pseudoscientific claims and, even better, a concise description of the scientific method - Ken Feder on Skeptic Friends Network from "Frauds, Myths and Mysteries" |
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AnthroGeek
New Member
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2012 : 14:45:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by AnthroGeek
Why not "Humanism Plus"? |
Some of us prefer to avoid the label "humanist."| It come more off more to me as politics plus atheism than atheism plus politics. |
As explained above, the idea is that atheism serves as the basis for the need for social justice activism, not the other way around. Yes, most A+ers are focused on the politics, but it's the atheism that provides the motivation.| Hell, I don't even see atheism as a movement; much less that of one that swells forth in waves. |
Movement atheism is the fight for "I'm an atheist" to be met with indifference instead of indignation.
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I also do not believe that treating people as an equal is any more rooted in atheism than theism.
If PZ got bopped on the head tomorrow and just believed in some teleological argument for a god; he wouldn't suddenly say that women should be in the kitchen making sandwiches and gays should burn in hell.
If you want to label yourself as A+ go for it. But your disbelief in gods says nothing about your politics or how you treat people. Saying that you are of a political or philosophical persuasion can tell me more about you than you simply saying you don't believe in god(s)
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A series of fun one-liners about various pseudoscientific claims and, even better, a concise description of the scientific method - Ken Feder on Skeptic Friends Network from "Frauds, Myths and Mysteries" |
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Atheism Period
