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energyscholar
New Member
USA
39 Posts |
 Posted - 11/18/2012 : 15:37:25 [Permalink]
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Point taken. True, dat. I picked a bad example. My example was only successfully censored for a year or so: until after the war was over. I should have picked a better example, one not so close to my personal experiences.
My point is that real election fraud, were it discovered in the USA, would probably be a censored story. Even the innocent and aggrieved party (now victorious, because the fraud failed this time) would want to suppress it. The best evidence I can provide for this trend is Al Gore's reaction to the (deeply flawed and clearly fraudulent by most standards) 2000 Presidential election. Also, any 'proof' involving statistical analysis is not accessible to most people and does not play well on TV. 
It would not be terribly difficult to verify or debunk the above claims of electoral fraud. It would involve contacting the Secretary of State of each affected state, gathering the original raw data, performing the appropriate statistical analysis, and writing up a report. I haven't done it. I also notice that no media outlet has taken on the task. It would require a very bold, very well-protected investigative journalist to go after Karl Rove, considering what happened to the last star witness.
As a computer security specialist I know that the rise of electronic voting has changed the electoral landscape. Election fraud has been with us as long as voting, but electronic voting makes systemic fraud much easier. In an electronic voting system the victory goes to whomever hires the best hackers  . I have no information about whether these particular claims of electoral fraud are true or false, but I would not be at all surprised if they are (partly ... ) true.
The obvious solution is PAPER BALLOTS, COUNTED BY HAND. So we wait a few extra days to know the results, as in days of yore. You can bet that anyone who supports electronic voting is either ignorant of computer security issues, or has an ulterior motive. Requisite quote of Hanlon's Razor: never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
I'll end with a clear example of censored content. In my professional capacity as a security researcher I am personally acquainted (i.e. lunches, water cooler gossip, drunken revelry) with organizations, mostly composed of ex-spies, that sell internet forum manipulation services. An exasperated ex-spy recently wrote down the standard methods used for manipulating online forums. I encourage anyone interested to read "The Gentleperson's Guide to Forum Spies", as published at cryptome.org , as a tool to spot such manipulative behavior. Note that the above document is actively censored: try as you might, you will probably be unable to get it in front of very many eyeballs using viral electronic means. I've tried and failed, and others have tried and failed. Feel free to take that as a challenge, and make of your inevitable failure what you will. The failed attempt is still worthwhile, as it demonstrates the existence of the censorship apparatus.
Thanks for your time and attention, Skeptic Friends.
Regards,
EnergyScholar
Originally posted by H. Humbert
But the Plame scandal was covered by the mainstream news, so I'm still not sure how it makes a good example. True, few people were held accountable. Maybe it wasn't given the attention you felt it deserved. But it was covered. Scooter Libby even faced trial. It was national news.
That's not the same as being unable to find a single credible news source covering a supposedly earth-shaking story, as we have in this case.
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"It is Easier to get Forgiveness than Permission" - Rear Admiral Grace Hopper |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2012 : 16:54:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by energyscholar
I'll end with a clear example of censored content. In my professional capacity as a security researcher I am personally acquainted (i.e. lunches, water cooler gossip, drunken revelry) with organizations, mostly composed of ex-spies, that sell internet forum manipulation services. An exasperated ex-spy recently wrote down the standard methods used for manipulating online forums. I encourage anyone interested to read "The Gentleperson's Guide to Forum Spies", as published at cryptome.org , as a tool to spot such manipulative behavior. Note that the above document is actively censored: try as you might, you will probably be unable to get it in front of very many eyeballs using viral electronic means. |
A Google search results in 180,000 pages. That's failed censorship. The article has been up at The Daily Kos since July, and David Icke's forums for over 18 months. The would-be censors, apparently, are totally incompetent.
Note that censorship does not mean "can't get it to go viral." There are plenty of works which don't go viral, and it has nothing to do with them being "actively censored." They just suck in a way that even the hippest hipster can't make entertainingly ironic. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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energyscholar
New Member
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2012 : 17:44:40 [Permalink]
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You just made my point. The fact that US government and US corporations resort to espionage techniques to manipulate USA public opinion ought to be front page news. Instead, you can only read about the details on conspiracy theory web sites.
The fact the you found it on David Icke's forum is a good example of the technique called 'poisoning the well'. You mix true information you want ignored with obviously false information (all hail our lizard overlords!), and the baby gets thrown out with the bathwater. It's a tried and true disinformation technique.
Did you actually read the document in question, or did you just google for it without actually reading it? The person who wrote it has a PhD in Information Warfare, which is an actual academic topic in certain specialized schools.
| That's failed censorship. The article has been up at The Daily Kos since July, and David Icke's forums for over 18 months. The would-be censors, apparently, are totally incompetent. |
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"It is Easier to get Forgiveness than Permission" - Rear Admiral Grace Hopper |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2012 : 19:33:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by energyscholar
You just made my point. The fact that US government and US corporations resort to espionage techniques to manipulate USA public opinion ought to be front page news. |
Dog bites man. If they weren't being manipulative, that would be front-page news. Madison Avenue, for example, relies on underhanded psychology for its paychecks. Why wouldn't those who write those checks do the same for their own ends?| Instead, you can only read about the details on conspiracy theory web sites. |
No, not "only."| The fact the you found it on David Icke's forum is a good example of the technique called 'poisoning the well'. You mix true information you want ignored with obviously false information (all hail our lizard overlords!), and the baby gets thrown out with the bathwater. It's a tried and true disinformation technique. |
That assumes that the article was posted there by a disinformation agent, and not an honest actor trying to get the word out. You've poisoned the well yourself with that remark, because now we can't tell the difference between those two types of people. So how can a person tell, from what's available to the average schmoe surfing the Web, whether an author is peddling truth or lies?
I mean, you're doing quite a decent job of distracting away from the original subject of this thread, aren't you? How do I know you're not just trying to hide my criticisms of the "research" in the OP under a mountain of off-topic nonsense? Certainly is a double-edged sword you're wielding there, ain't it?| Did you actually read the document in question, or did you just google for it without actually reading it? |
I read it. None of it was surprising or enlightening because it describes things that have gone on, openly, for a long, long time (long before the age of the Internet). You seem to consider it some sort of revelation of esoterica. I see run-of-the-mill psychology, well known to politicians and propagandists for (probably) thousands of years.| The person who wrote it has a PhD in Information Warfare... |
I see no evidence of that. It certainly wasn't written in a very scholarly form, and it's nothing that requires "a PhD in Information Warfare" to detect, comprehend and/or implement. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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energyscholar
New Member
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2012 : 21:42:09 [Permalink]
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| Good observations all! Glad to see we have some sharp cookies here. |
"It is Easier to get Forgiveness than Permission" - Rear Admiral Grace Hopper |
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf
USA
1487 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2012 : 23:55:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by energyscholar
Good observations all! Glad to see we have some sharp cookies here.
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So is that an admission of intentional distraction and misinformation of this topic, heh?
I found the answer that we've been looking for all this time. It's [DELETED]
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| Edited by - ThorGoLucky on 11/19/2012 18:06:54 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2012 : 18:18:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by energyscholar
Point taken. True, dat. I picked a bad example. My example was only successfully censored for a year or so: until after the war was over. |
...until the war was "over".
How many American soldiers are still left in Iraq?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Election conspiracy
