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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 10/18/2013 : 11:20:14
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Here's some thoughts I just now sent to my daughter, who had noted that almost half of Tea Party supporters polled wanted to quit the GOP and set up a separate political party. I'd appreciate your comments:
The Tea Party members leaving the GOP would maybe be the least bloody solution. But the GOP is in long-term decline anyway, due to massive and probably irreversible demographics. African Americans hate 'em, Hispanics hate 'em, women hate 'em, Gays and Lesbians hate 'em, and those wonderful Millennium Generation people hate 'em. Their core voting supporters are a dying breed, literally: White Christian men of advanced age. And they are well aware of this problem.
Those same demographics probably go double for the Teabaggers. The two groups paradoxically need each other, but, like a dysfunctional couple, they are simply terrible for each other. Without the GOP to give them legitimate cover and funding, the Tea Party will accelerate its decline. Without the Tea Party, the dwindling GOP minority party loses a ton of grass roots supporters. But the Teabaggers want to punk the GOP, get its money and dictate its goals. And as Rachael Maddow reported, they don't even know how to fly the plane. The GOP wants to tame and domesticate the Tea Party and make it into their electoral army. But even the Teabaggers are smart enough to see that.
I see both groups going downhill quickly.
My guess is that after the GOP has faded into almost minor party status, a new party will be formed by former Republicans, independents, and a few Democrats. Teabaggers not invited. It'll be billed as a Center party, but will be slightly right of that; more of a Center-Right party. Its core though, will be the old-style GOP "Paleo-cons." It's immediate advantages will be that it will have tons of corporate money, and to many voters it will quickly look like a viable alternative to the Democratic Party. I'd expect this successor party to be almost progressive on social issues (such as immigration, gay rights and other civil rights), but be more hard-core conservative on issues like taxing the rich. That would make them a much more legitimate and competitive party for the 21st Century.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2013 : 12:30:15 [Permalink]
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| In order to cover the centre, Democrats have moved so much right that they could rightly be considered a right wing party. What USA needs is a social democratic party to look after the average working class people. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2013 : 12:48:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
In order to cover the centre, Democrats have moved so much right that they could rightly be considered a right wing party. What USA needs is a social democratic party to look after the average working class people. |
By European standards, where the whole political spectrum itself is to the left of that of the USA, yes, the center of the Democratic Party might be considered Center-Right. But the Democratic Party has long been extremely diverse, composed of people from the democratic socialist Left all the way to the moderate Right. I think that if my hypothetical GOP-successor party becomes what I suspect and makes a serious bid for centrists, that will tend to push the Democrats a bit to the Left. I doubt it would become a Social Democratic party by a long shot. Of course, this is all wild speculation built upon wild speculation. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2013 : 13:10:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
In order to cover the centre, Democrats have moved so much right that they could rightly be considered a right wing party. What USA needs is a social democratic party to look after the average working class people.
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Hell yes. I couldn't agree with you more. There no reason the US needs to spend $50 Billion more than the next 27 countries combined, (on the chart below) on defense as of 2009 figures. Defense spending during the cold war caused the collapse of the old Soviet Union (USSR) in 1991 and America's spending hasn't slowed at all more that 20 years latter. Which does not include the unfunded wars of Iraq and Afghanistan which are largely funded through supplementary spending bills outside the federal budget completely.
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There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2013 : 13:12:59 [Permalink]
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What if USA diverted half of its military spending and put that on social security and national health care, of split it between that and NASA...
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf
USA
1487 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2013 : 13:55:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
In order to cover the centre, Democrats have moved so much right that they could rightly be considered a right wing party. What USA needs is a social democratic party to look after the average working class people.
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That's got my vote! |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2013 : 23:12:39 [Permalink]
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| That's the beginnings of what looks to be a great discussion, but it is pretty far off this topic of the future of political parties in the US. The matter of US military spending deserves its own thread, don't you agree? |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2013 : 05:44:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
What if USA diverted half of its military spending and put that on social security and national health care, of split it between that and NASA...
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It's probably medicare/medicade your thinking of Dr. Mabuse. Social Security has nothing to do with the Federal budget. Except for the $4.8 trillion that Washington has borrowed from SS funds. As of April 2012, the intragovernmental debt owed to SS was $4.8 trillion of the total federal debt of $15.7 trillion US national debt. The money does not come from federal taxes but from a separate payroll tax, which is completely separate. Even this year 2013 more will be collected than paid out, if I not mistaken.
There is the problem regarding whether the U.S. government will be able to borrow sufficient amounts from other sources when those funds are needed in the future. To fully pay back to recipients their money, which they have paid in. This is a challenge for the Federal government overall, not the Social Security program.
We need ONE FUCKING THING! A balanced budget amendment. One that only spend the revenue that is collected. There ain't no way in hell or on this green earth that America will ever adapted one because every dollar spent today that is borrowed doesn't benefit American citizens and those it does benefit control Washington and the press. And they ain't going to give up one ounce of the power they are so effectively using right now, when they are at the top of their game. They control both parties behind the scenes, IMO. Oh! we're so fucked, hang on this shit ain't changing much as i see it because those creating this mess for us are benefiting from it.
The few people on and reading this forum has as much an effect on it as a pebble in the ocean. Americans think their vote counts, Ha! That a good one. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2013 : 05:45:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
That's the beginnings of what looks to be a great discussion, but it is pretty far off this topic of the future of political parties in the US. The matter of US military spending deserves its own thread, don't you agree?
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You are correct. Sorry about that HalfMooner! |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2013 : 05:56:54 [Permalink]
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One of my standing comments about the party system in USA is that it's effectually a two party system.
USA have only one party more than the old Communist Soviet Union.
Chew on that for a while.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2013 : 06:15:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
One of my standing comments about the party system in USA is that it's effectually a two party system.
USA have only one party more than the old Communist Soviet Union.
Chew on that for a while.
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I agree and they are one in the same as far as the results goes. Read up on ALEC and here. That group effectively initiates and writes all new legislation. American voters are not even in the picture when it comes to Washington. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2013 : 11:08:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by sailingsoul
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
What if USA diverted half of its military spending and put that on social security and national health care, of split it between that and NASA...
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It's probably medicare/medicade your thinking of Dr. Mabuse.
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Yes, my mistake. I was thinking "social safety net" in a more general sense, including nationalised health care.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2013 : 03:09:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
One of my standing comments about the party system in USA is that it's effectually a two party system.
USA have only one party more than the old Communist Soviet Union.
Chew on that for a while.
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Well, that makes perfect sense. Wait, let me think on it. Nope, it's correct only mathematically. Having more that one party is the important thing. Two or dozens, doesn't much matter. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2013 : 05:43:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Here's some thoughts I just now sent to my daughter, who had noted that almost half of Tea Party supporters polled wanted to quit the GOP and set up a separate political party. I'd appreciate your comments:
The Tea Party members leaving the GOP would maybe be the least bloody solution. But the GOP is in long-term decline anyway, due to massive and probably irreversible demographics. African Americans hate 'em, Hispanics hate 'em, women hate 'em, Gays and Lesbians hate 'em, and those wonderful Millennium Generation people hate 'em. Their core voting supporters are a dying breed, literally: White Christian men of advanced age. And they are well aware of this problem.
Those same demographics probably go double for the Teabaggers. The two groups paradoxically need each other, but, like a dysfunctional couple, they are simply terrible for each other. Without the GOP to give them legitimate cover and funding, the Tea Party will accelerate its decline. Without the Tea Party, the dwindling GOP minority party loses a ton of grass roots supporters. But the Teabaggers want to punk the GOP, get its money and dictate its goals. And as Rachael Maddow reported, they don't even know how to fly the plane. The GOP wants to tame and domesticate the Tea Party and make it into their electoral army. But even the Teabaggers are smart enough to see that.
I see both groups going downhill quickly.
My guess is that after the GOP has faded into almost minor party status, a new party will be formed by former Republicans, independents, and a few Democrats. Teabaggers not invited. It'll be billed as a Center party, but will be slightly right of that; more of a Center-Right party. Its core though, will be the old-style GOP "Paleo-cons." It's immediate advantages will be that it will have tons of corporate money, and to many voters it will quickly look like a viable alternative to the Democratic Party. I'd expect this successor party to be almost progressive on social issues (such as immigration, gay rights and other civil rights), but be more hard-core conservative on issues like taxing the rich. That would make them a much more legitimate and competitive party for the 21st Century.
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The GOP still has an inclusion problem. But the Tea Party really loves them. Really. They just fall down a lot. And they must have said something to deserve that beating they took.
I'm for the disolution of all parties. They have been a bane on the existance of the country.
Heck, even that Washington guy said, "One of the expedients of party to acquire influence within particular districts is to misrepresent the opinions and aims of other districts. You cannot shield yourselves too much against the jealousies and heartburnings which spring from these misrepresentations; they tend to render alien to each other those who ought to be bound together by fraternal affection." (Geo Washington, Farewell Address, 1796) |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2013 : 06:23:26 [Permalink]
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| Washington would be a RINO - damn commie librul |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2013 : 21:15:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by pleco
Washington would be a RINO - damn commie librul
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Yes. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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The future of the GOP and the Tea Party
