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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
 Posted - 12/16/2013 : 21:26:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by sailingsoul
Either way if this video is not as presented, as I suspect, I'm not going to convince anyone here who see's it as the real deal. |
What - precisely - do you mean by "the real deal"? |
Dave! Read my previous posts for your answer. I made my points clear and for what reasons. Read the actual words and not what you think they say. Like why you believe Thor said,,, posted by Dave W.
He said, "...ice doesn't sound like a skin drum." Unqualified, it means "ice doesn't sound like what you hear in that video, period." I, however, don't hear the sound of skin drums. |
He didn't say they sound like drums anywhere in this topic.
Do you think my hypothesis about the production of the video is completely implausible?
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No I don't, it is quite plausible. Something being plausibly does not make it true. Again, the Baikal video is not presented in the article as an MTV like video, like the Idol video was created to be. It was presented in the article to be people playing (close together) a number of naturally occurring ice slabs that can produce tones that were being played. I too will allow video editing and some digital audio tuning but beyond a certain amount it no longer is what they claim it was. IMO. We can't say how much was done in producing this. Other than try to find clues in the video.
I'll ask you this, is it completely implausible that they used enough Artistic license in making this video that it's pushing beyond what they are presenting it to be in the article? As I read the article what we see them playing were naturally occurring in a special (particular) place on the frozen lake. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2013 : 22:21:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by sailingsoul
Dave! Read my previous posts for your answer. I made my points clear and for what reasons. Read the actual words and not what you think they say. |
I asked for precision because I don't see a clear meaning.Like why you believe Thor said,,, posted by Dave W.
He said, "...ice doesn't sound like a skin drum." Unqualified, it means "ice doesn't sound like what you hear in that video, period." I, however, don't hear the sound of skin drums. |
He didn't say they sound like drums anywhere in this topic. |
Context is important. We were talking about the sounds. His saying that the video is unbelievable because "ice doesn't sound like a skin drum" means that he thinks the sounds in the video were created by skin drums. If you think otherwise... I don't know what. That particular meaning is absolutely crystal clear to me.| Do you think my hypothesis about the production of the video is completely implausible? |
No I don't, it is quite plausible. Something being plausibly does not make it true. Again, the Baikal video is not presented in the article as an MTV like video, like the Idol video was created to be. It was presented in the article to be people playing (close together) a number of naturally occurring ice slabs that can produce tones that were being played. |
Where does it say that? You think I'm reading stuff into Thor's words that he didn't mean. I think you're doing the same to that article. Nowhere does the article discuss the actual production of either the song or the video.| I'll ask you this, is it completely implausible that they used enough Artistic license in making this video that it's pushing beyond what they are presenting it to be in the article? |
The article doesn't present it as much.| As I read the article what we see them playing were naturally occurring in a special (particular) place on the frozen lake. |
That special place is where the sounds were recorded, and where the video was recorded, but there's not a chance in hell that both were done at the same time, and that's obvious from the video.
Thor is saying that there isn't a chance that those sounds were recorded on that lake at all, because he hears skin drums and "ice doesn't sound like skin drums." |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2013 : 03:25:28 [Permalink]
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Dave:
That special place is where the sounds were recorded, and where the video was recorded, but there's not a chance in hell that both were done at the same time, and that's obvious from the video. |
I think it's likely the video and the sounds were recorded at the same time. I don't see any reason why not. The editing could have taken place later, and to my thinking, it probably was. It would be awfully difficult to synchronize all of their moves to a pre-recording. We see and hear ice breaking even as it's being played in some parts of the video. How would they sync that? Clearly there are overdubs, but again, those could have been handled later in studio editing taken from different parts of the recording. And I'll point out that the people playing the ice were presented as real percussionists, which is important because keeping an even tempo would not be beyond their abilities.
SS:
I'll ask you this, is it completely implausible that they used enough Artistic license in making this video that it's pushing beyond what they are presenting it to be in the article? |
Is it so implausible that the video is about a place on a lake where ice can be played like percussion instruments because it really can be?
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
 Posted - 12/17/2013 : 11:40:45 [Permalink]
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So the physics of this is quite plausible. Ice that freezes in sheets like that has a unique crystalline structure that could vibrate at a frequency based on their length. The resonance you hear would be from a fairly large trapped air pocket beneath the ice.
A very good model for this is a music box. Each tine vibrates at a pitch dependent on its length, and the box cavity provides the resonance. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2013 : 12:13:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Boron10
So the physics of this is quite plausible. Ice that freezes in sheets like that has a unique crystalline structure that could vibrate at a frequency based on their length. The resonance you hear would be from a fairly large trapped air pocket beneath the ice.
A very good model for this is a music box. Each tine vibrates at a pitch dependent on its length, and the box cavity provides the resonance.
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Right. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2013 : 22:53:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
It would be awfully difficult to synchronize all of their moves to a pre-recording. We see and hear ice breaking even as it's being played in some parts of the video. How would they sync that? |
That happens all the time, Kil. In movies, the audio and video are recorded on separate media. They are synched up in editing, hence the use of the clap-boards. Billy Idol strums his guitar in the video, yet the audio came from a studio recording made months or years earlier. How'd they synch that up? Easily.| And I'll point out that the people playing the ice were presented as real percussionists, which is important because keeping an even tempo would not be beyond their abilities. |
Yes, and that really was Billy Idol we see in the video for his own song. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2013 : 00:46:02 [Permalink]
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| That happens all the time, Kil. In movies, the audio and video are recorded on separate media. |
It's possible that they did the audio and the visuals using a camera and tape equipment and synced it. I have no problem with that. But again, I doubt that what we are seeing didn't occur just as it happened. At least in the parts where we actually see them playing the ice. I get that parts were strung together in editing to make a complete video, but unlike that Idol video, I think they are playing live and then the video was edited. Not the other way around. Idol is pretending to play his guitar in his video to a record that was already recorded. They aren't pretending to play the ice.
One part that sells it for me starts at around 1:38. Of course, there is a problem with girls changing position. But that could have happened by layering the sound, which I already thought they were doing, which is why I said the editing is obvious. We are hearing more than one track. But in each position, they were playing what they were playing. Then the music tracks continues as they dance and throw the kid up and do other stuff. That could be a loop or other music tracks we don't see them playing but were recorded, that are added in editing. Easy.
I might be wrong. But I don't think so. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2013 : 14:26:48 [Permalink]
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| I'm not wedded to any particular amount of editing/layering/multi-tracking being done, just so long as it's not zero. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Lake Baikal Siberian ice drummers
