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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 08/12/2004 : 21:22:16 [Permalink]
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Tavion.... you could have a cool million US$ in your pocket if you care to demonstrate your amazing powers in a controlled experiment.
I believe that BeSkeptiGal posted the link to Randi's site....
It's there, yours for the taking. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2004 : 14:47:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Tavion
sorry bout the lack of paragraphs, by the time i was done i just hit Post, and didnt stop to see how long it was,
as for the minor tk, i didint explain very well, i meant i have moved only minor objects, and it was moving against my breath, that and i am skeptical enough that i constantly check by placing a small piece of paper, or my hand in front of the object first, to see if my breath reaches it, if it does, i move to where it does not, sorry bout that confusion.
As to the mirrors and etc. i was simply stating that if you dont want to believe no amount of proof will make you believe, there has to be some part of you, whether you know it or not, that says maybe, just maybe, or wouldnt that be cool if it was real, if your mind is dead set against it, well, there is no proof i can show you that will change your mind, that is up to you
hope this is easier for you to read.
I added the spaces to show you what we mean about ease of reading.
Doesn't matter if your supposed tk was 'minor' or not, it's an all or none issue. If you really did it, and I don't believe you did based on the fact that no one else has done it, you need to demonstrate it under proper scientific controls.
As to 'no one will believe if they don't want to', it sounds like you don't want to believe there are ways to demonstrate things such as tk that provide acceptable scientific evidence. To keep saying we just don't want to believe is nonsense. We want to believe, it would be incredibly exciting. But we aren't just going to believe it with out proper evidence.
And if it is real, proper evidence WILL show it. |
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Tavion
New Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2004 : 15:51:34 [Permalink]
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This is just outa curiosity, but how would you set up a controlled experament<my spelling isnt the best so if i mispell stuff, i sorry> for such a thing as tk?
and i do believe others have achieved tk, im not silly enough to think i am the only one, but who knows? maybe it was some strange freak movement each time, i dont know,
but i am wondering what a controlled experament would entail............
this is the hopefully new and improved easier to read version |
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2004 : 16:42:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Tavion
This is just outa curiosity, but how would you set up a controlled experament<my spelling isnt the best so if i mispell stuff, i sorry> for such a thing as tk?
and i do believe others have achieved tk, im not silly enough to think i am the only one, but who knows? maybe it was some strange freak movement each time, i dont know,
but i am wondering what a controlled experament would entail............
this is the hopefully new and improved easier to read version
A controlled experiment would be one where all the possible non-tk ways of moving the object have been prevented by the setup. Examples:
Air movement - Put the object in a sealed glass chamber, like an aquarium.
Gravity - Ensure that the surface that the object rests on is very flat.
Electromagnetic force - Use an object that is non-metallic.
Vibration - Put the aquarium on a vibration dampened table.
The design has to factor in your parameters as well. How close do you have to be to the object to be moved? What is the maximum weight?
The whole point behind this is to control every aspect of the experiment so that if the object does move, that movement cannot be attributed to anything except tk.
That's just for one experiment. Then other researchers must be able to reproduce that experiment in order for the results to gain validity. That gives the other scientists the opportunity to study the original experiment and try to find flaws in it. They may add more controls for things that the original experimenters overlooked and which may change the results, such as checking local seismographs to ensure that a minor earthquake did not occur during the experiment, skewing results.
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- TW
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2004 : 23:48:39 [Permalink]
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Tav, what were the circumstances of the tk you believe you accomplished? Can you describe it?
And, yes, the paragraph separations help.
I'd consider 1mm., (about the length of a pencil lead) sufficient length of movement if the controls for other possibilities were adequate. And, having the experiment repeated would still use the same 'tk' performer, IE you, but with other scientists setting up and monitoring the controls. I wasn't sure if that was clear from tw's description. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2004 : 09:29:24 [Permalink]
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1mm is far enough, IF REPEATABLE.
And to add to our experiment, Ill thrown in four or five or ten cameras to document as much of the envirnment as possible, not just the object to be moved. Also preventing the subject from handling the materials beforehand and making sure the object has a neutral static charge.
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"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
| Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 08/19/2004 09:31:52 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2004 : 13:36:01 [Permalink]
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| Tavion is still MIA. I PM'ed him/her to come back. |
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Skyhawk
New Member
33 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2004 : 17:53:38 [Permalink]
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Yeah a lot of these guys come and go. Yet they truly miss the point that we would believe in them if they actually could make a video or a few with some measurements (distance, temperature fluctutations, etc.). The videos I've seen so far can be reproduced with magic tricks. Remember, it's not that we believe you are wrong but we believe there is a lack of evidence proving that you are right.
To help we should get a volunteer from their forums to create a scientific experiment to be video taped. They should post on this forums of their design plan before attempting it. Also it should require us to aprove the plan. Then the plan should be carried out on video,etc. After that, we can analyze the video ourselves and maybe get another experiement going that fixes up the control variables from the last experiement. Please, if one of you from psipog.net can volunteer to do this...and be able to prove yourselves right...you will have a lot of skeptics turned believers out there. So, anyone up for that challenge?? |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2004 : 18:19:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by TG
My cat does a pretty good job of hurling hair-balls.
TG
This may just be a coincidence, but mine do too. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2004 : 19:53:25 [Permalink]
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Skyhawk wrote:quote:
So, anyone up for that challenge??
If history is any indication, they'll be up for it until the discussion of "control" of the experiment(s) comes up, and then they'll balk at being restricted.
I'm not saying this to be mean, I've just been involved with and/or read about too many of these sorts of well-intentioned experiments to have my idealism remain intact. If they don't balk at the experimental controls, they'll balk at being tested at all, or being tested by a bunch of nobodies on a Web forum, or being tested by self-professed "skeptics," or they'll claim they have nothing to prove and so aren't interested, etc..
These people are - I assure you - well aware of Randi's million-dollar challenge. The reason they don't have that million bucks now is not (according to them, probably) because they don't have any psionic powers, but because they are simply unwilling to test their powers for whatever contrived reason that maintains their self-respect at the moment (up to and including charges that Randi is a lying, cheating con-man himself). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Naked Ape
New Member
Canada
4 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2004 : 14:44:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted random.Psipog.woo.woo
In some circles, psi-balls are regarded as little more than an exercise in focus. To really practice focusing, move the psi-ball around the room, perhaps forming it into an airplane and doing loops, rolls, and other aerobatic maneuvers.
You can also change the temperature of a psi-ball. You can, if you want to, put a lot of energy into a small, condensed psi-ball to produce a hot little fireball. Conversely, you can will the psi-ball to be cool. The latter is useful for soothing headaches, swellings, fevers, and such.
With enough energy and focused intent, it is even possible to affect actual healing, knitting broken bones back together or closing wounds. It is completely unnecessary for the person being healed to believe in the possibility of these things, although such belief certainly couldn't hurt.
I don't know why these nuts don't want Randi's money. I think they could get the million easy of they healed a shattered bone and closed a gaping wound with a psiball. Hell, they are probably afraid of being drafted, a couple of magic medics healing fractures and cuts with magic balls of colored light would be downright popular with the marines in Iraq right about now.
Perhaps they suffer from performance anxiety, like the guy in Mystery Men who could become invisible, but only if no-one was looking at him.
Cheers,
Naked Ape |
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
--Philip K. Dick (1928 - 1982) |
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Semi_Mysterious
New Member
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2004 : 18:44:41 [Permalink]
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before you call me crazy, hear me out,
Actually, as an amature psionic myself, i know that a psiball is a CONSTRUCT, a construct is a formation of energy programed to do something through vizualization,
one of my personal favorite things to do is use the sun as a drawn energy source to make a psi ball warmer than room temperature, (not like a million degrees, just one, maybe two)
another favorite psionic ability is the ability to make a wall or some other shape that if you pass through it, you will feel some emotion that is not your own,
reading minds is fun, but can kill you if you dont set up a psionic shield that stops them from lashing out and causing brain damage, otherwise its funny to say things like 'i know what your thinking' then tell them what they were about to say,
all in all, psionics only works if you can use a sense of twisted, messed up reasoning to make yourself believe in it, otherwise youll just get really frustrated
I would suggest the 'try it before you buy it' approch, i'm not saying you have to, but i would suggest you try and get results before you say its fake and that we psionics are all nuts,
(i am not crazy, so don't even bother saying so) |
PSIONICS IS REAL!
GHOSTS ARE REAL!
MARSHMALOWS ARE TASTY!
SKEPTICS ARE GAY! |
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Semi_Mysterious
New Member
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2004 : 18:53:58 [Permalink]
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| i'm not checking this post ever, so don't bother, if you wish to speak to me, Email me at Reverse_Ages@hotmail.com |
PSIONICS IS REAL!
GHOSTS ARE REAL!
MARSHMALOWS ARE TASTY!
SKEPTICS ARE GAY! |
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend
USA
446 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2004 : 19:32:00 [Permalink]
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Semi_Mysterious,
If your not going to check back here, then why post?
*sigh*
As for psi-powers, I wish there was prof, but I have not found any prof myself in my own experiments that I did when I was younger.
I would love for any of you guys to post prof under the guide-line the others have put forth. Heck I would love it if you just did the experiment and posted your results.
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You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley |
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