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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 05/26/2004 : 11:45:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
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The Great Barrier Reef has been estimated to be 4,200 years old. No living thing is older than about 5,000 years, which is consistent with life forms beginning after the time of Noah's worldwide flood.
There are, in fact, forms of life (still living) that are more than 5000 years old. (The methane producing bacteria that live in the ocean floors). And, there is sufficient fossil/archeological evidence to support (nay, prove) the idea that humans (just one form of life) not only lived on solid ground more than 5000 years ago, but that the ground upon which they lived has not been underwater anytime in the last million or so years.
And.... how, exactly, does it follow that a flood would be in any way harmfull to the many forms of life that live in the water? You're not making any sense at all....
quote:
But look, nobody can be as dense as velrlch appears and still find his way to the bathroom for a midnight emergency.
Maybe.... You'd be suprised, I think, at the number of people (I can't use the word intelligent to describe them) who do believe the creation myth as if it were a factual description of reality.
Verlch... I want you to go look up (a google search may do it) a term or two. CONFIRMATION BIAS. Post Hoc. Argumentum ad Ignorantiam. Selective Thinking. Wishfull Thinking. Argument from Incredulity. Just a few of the logic and argument fallacies you dropped on us in your most recent post in this thread... So, clean up your arguments and atleast turn them into something that resembles a valid argument. We can then procede to debate the soundness of your premises.
Is that asking to much? |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 12:01:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
The evangelists that I have known do not put this much effort into winning souls.
I'm not trying to win souls, I am debating information. I could care less about your 'souls'. Your souls are none of my business. I am simply debating something that I consider a fairy tale, nothing less.
You are debating doodly squat! You are putting forth assertions and as soon as they are answered, you defend them with crap, if you defend them all. You have been asked to support at least one of the assertions on Dave's list but have yet to chose one and do it. And now you come out with some new ones? No, no my man, that shit don't float.
So, as you won't pick one, I'll do it for you.
Hmm. So many to chose from. Noah's flood has already been thourghly debunked and unless you can refute Leipzig, there's little point in going there.
Hum-te-tum-te-tum., so many to chose from. Should keep it simple, I think. Lesse, how ‘bout #44:
“Carbon dating is so error-prone that it is fair to call it fiction.”
Is it now? I don't think so. Now back that up with something besides hand waving and unsupported babble, then maybe we'll go on to something else.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 15:27:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
http://www.absolutetruth.net/bible/page15.html
I'm sure each website is a 'lie' as soon as Dr. Zuse lays eyes upon it! How can they all be lies, the penny analagy?
http://www.aiias.edu/ict/vol_26B/26Bcc_457-477.htm
Lies, Lies and more lies, Right Doc?
http://www.creationdefense.org/53.htm
http://www.wuzupgod.com/slogans/bible.htm
Not a fugly link provided answer the question about the penny-analogy.
You claim to have rudimentary knowledge of how evolution works. Right or wrong?
If your answer is "right (you do know basic evolutionary theory)" then you should know better than to use the penny-analogy as an argument against the Theory of Evolution.
If your answer is "wrong (you agree with me that you know next to nothing about evolutionary theory)" then why go to creationist websites to learn about it? Creationists have an invested interest in misrepresenting ToE.
Let's use an analogy (you should be smart enough to connect the dots...):
You don't ask the plumber to teach you about electrical wiring.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Stargirl
Skeptic Friend
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 16:56:22 [Permalink]
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Verlch, It wasn't meant to be mean spirited I only expressed a simple observation using your own bible quote.
If you are going to use the bible to support your claims then in all fairness the members of this board should be able to use it too.
But be warned that many people on this board know the bible quite well, probably better than you do.
And like the quote mining that creationist are so fond of there are undoubtedly many bible verses that could be used to prove our points.
Keep in mind also that our, or at least my interpretation of scripture is likely very different though no less valid than yours.
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesian 6”
You know if I close my eyes I can almost hear Carl Sagan saying this very verse.
Try reading The Demon-Haunted World, you'll hate me for it.
“And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? -somewhere in the bible.
So when people believe in one superstition they should switch to another superstition instead, or is that believe in addition too, haven't decided on which one yet. This is Isaiah 8:19 by the way.
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils." - 1 Timothy 4:1
A spirit warns you not to be seduced by a spirit, so why are you allowing a spirit to seduce you?
And I'm sorry to disappoint you but I'm not a Wiccian. (spelling?)
Nor do I believe in any of the other hundreds of gods, ghosts, spirits or other superstitious deities.
All of which have just as much foundation in truth as does yours.
You are right about one thing though; we are definitely not compatible.
Sorry everybody, I wasn't trying to hijack the thread.
I just get very pissed when bible thumpers quote scripture without ever thinking that other people can, no will read the same verse and interpret it completely different.
On a more serious note Verlch I would suggest that you study some aspect of science from the scientific point of view until you understand it thoroughly because it would open up a whole new and wonderful world to you.
Unfortunately others have suggested this as well and you've cast a blind eye upon it.
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If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him - Voltaire |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 21:38:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
What you refer to as "trolls" sounds interesting until you consider the abusivness cited by Cuneiformist.
So what are we the Politically Correct Police now, as well as evolutionist! I have been as sassy as anyone here, but I guess only you can be sassy and creationists have to zip the lip!
You don't get it (surprise!). Being a troll has nothing to do with being "abusive" or "sassy" (and for the record, I hope that no one ever says I'm sassy). Well, it has a little to do with it, but only tangentally.
A troll posts antagonistic messages to generate massive response. This is done by posting infammatory material, making slanderous claims, ignoring obvious evidence, and so on.
For instance, you could read my definition of troll, then post a reply that says that I'm the one attacking you and therefore I'm being unfair, missing the point and frustrating me enough to respond. You get a laugh our of making me jump through hoops and I get to call you a troll. It's very simple, see? |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 22:02:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
The bible says that water came from inside the earth and from above! That would explain the fact the earth is 70% water.
Ok, one more time: Verlch, I've told you before, try get this...
The earth is NOT 70% water. The earth is less ~1% water.
the surface is 70% covered with water. Which is a fugly big difference.
With every post you write I'm getting more and more convinced that you know Jack Shit about 1) Evolution 2) Biology 3) Geology 4) Math 5) Science in general.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 22:03:17 [Permalink]
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As an official administrative warning: this thread will be closed tomorrow, sometime in the morning or afternoon, Eastern U.S. Time. A new, special thread will be opened at the same time, to partially compensate for this thread's closure. A link to the new thread will be posted in the final message in this thread.
The new thread will not be the free-for-all that this one has been, so fair warning has been given to those who'd like to get a final word in on the subjects (the multitude of them) presented here. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 22:17:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
I am debating information.
No, you are not debating information.
A debate demands that you respond to our questioning your assertions. You have not done that thus far.
You have made lots of assertions, but each and every time we have asked you to back them up, you've dodged it, and moved on to yet another blather about fugly things.
Before you had written your 10th post on this forum I had already classified you as a typical Fundie(tm) who, just like a parrot, repeats Creationist propaganda without actually knowing anything about what you thought you were debating. I'm still waiting for evidense that you have the capacity to understand what science and critical thought really is. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 22:58:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
On a more serious note Verlch I would suggest that you study some aspect of science from the scientific point of view until you understand it thoroughly because it would open up a whole new and wonderful world to you.
Unfortunately others have suggested this as well and you've cast a blind eye upon it.
The last thing I need to do is to crack open a diet Coke, turn on PBS. Then listen to some numb skull telling me 4 score and 280 billion years ago, dinosaurs roamed the bush! I wanna watch a show about something interesting! I'm a creationist for funcks sake....I don't wanna open N G and have Star Girl blabing and nagging me about how evolution is so "great"! I don't care, I don't wanna hear what some 'man of science' thinks happened 12 trillion years ago! Keep your faith based religion to yourselves and those who think like you! I don't need my children studying book after book of fiction and dribble! And I will do the same, I will tell people whom want to hear about God, not you. Your ears are closed and you might be the same 'people' that want to burn the bible out of humanity. I, as of a few days ago, haven't heard of anybody that wants to burn darwins, 'the origins of goofyasses'. Correct me if I'm wrong. As I'm sure the Alpha males in here will.
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What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 23:19:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
With every post you write I'm getting more and more convinced that you know Jack Shit about 1) Evolution 2) Biology 3) Geology 4) Math 5) Science in general.
I've studied it but my ADD gets worse will each passing nano-second with evolution!
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What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 23:30:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
The new thread will not be the free-for-all that this one has been, so fair warning has been given to those who'd like to get a final word in on the subjects (the multitude of them) presented here.
Count me out baby...This is a Lone Creationist battling it out with evolutionists in an evolution/creation thread. What is up with this? Is this an ass kissing evolutionist/evolutionist thread? I'll answer it, No!!! So let me speak my peace, man. But then again I don't own the website, but then what is the purpose of debate.
Everything I have presented have been labeled lies by the priesthood of Evolution! Yet Mr's. Evolution have not presented me WITH A SINGLE missing link!!! Other than the mammoth/elephant connection(485 million years ago, mind you!) ! I NEED THE FISH/MAMMOTH CONNECTION! Which, of course, you Alpha males, DO NOT HAVE! I need what happened before the 400 million year old fossil record! Otherwise I will be tempted to dismiss it as 'LIES'.
I peronally feel really swell thinking I DECSENDED FROM A MONKEY! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 23:34:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
The last thing I need to do is to crack open a diet Coke, turn on PBS. Then listen to some numb skull telling me 4 score and 280 billion years ago, dinosaurs roamed the bush! I wanna watch a show about something interesting! I'm a creationist for funcks sake....I don't wanna open N G and have Star Girl blabing and nagging me about how evolution is so "great"! I don't care, I don't wanna hear what some 'man of science' thinks happened 12 trillion years ago! Keep your faith based religion to yourselves and those who think like you! I don't need my children studying book after book of fiction and dribble! And I will do the same, I will tell people whom want to hear about God, not you. Your ears are closed and you might be the same 'people' that want to burn the bible out of humanity. I, as of a few days ago, haven't heard of anybody that wants to burn darwins, 'the origins of goofyasses'. Correct me if I'm wrong. As I'm sure the Alpha males in here will.
So... what then is your purpose here? What goal is accomplished by dropping in and dropping a load of creationist nonsense and then claiming you don't care what anyone elses opinion is? (typical fundie garbage, btw). Do you hope to convert some skeptic to your way of thinking?
There is a way that you could convert every skeptic in the world to your cause. Just come up with a NEW (I say new, because all the ones out there now have atleast one fatal logical fallacy) argument for the existence of god that is sound, valid, and cogent. We'll convert, and you'll make your mark on the world. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2004 : 00:19:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
...This is a Lone Creationist battling it out .....
Must... ...refrain... ...from... ...sarcastic... ...comment....
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2004 : 01:48:56 [Permalink]
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"I'm ridin' the range once more,
Totin' my old forty four...."
Riders in the Sky
"They took John Hardy to the buryin' ground.
Took him there for to die.
The last words I heard John Hardy say;
My forty four ain't never told a lie....."
Hudie "Leadbelly" Ledbetter
“Carbon dating is so error-prone that it is fair to call it fiction.”
Yo verlch! Are you going to defend this tripe on not?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2004 : 04:12:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
As an official administrative warning: this thread will be closed tomorrow, sometime in the morning or afternoon, Eastern U.S. Time. A new, special thread will be opened at the same time, to partially compensate for this thread's closure. A link to the new thread will be posted in the final message in this thread.
The new thread will not be the free-for-all that this one has been, so fair warning has been given to those who'd like to get a final word in on the subjects (the multitude of them) presented here.
Yeah, what the hell. It was fun for a while, but now I grow weary of toying with verlch. A camel can indeed be passed through the eye of a needle but first it must be ground fine and smooth. I've long ago come to be convinced that we'll never grind the ToE fine enough to pass through the closed eye of verlch.
Shut 'er down.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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