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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
 Posted - 04/13/2004 : 06:31:40
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Yeah, I'm talking about the movie trilogy.
What I don't understand is why anyone would want to get out of the Matrix. What the hell difference does it make if you live your life in the real universe or an artificial universe that is indistinguishable from the real thing? Besides, in the movie, the real world is a lot nastier than the artificial one.
That's one conceptual problem with the movie. The other is that the idea they'd keep humans alive as a source of energy is just stupid. Why not use dogs or cows instead? Or nuclear reactors? Or if you really really wanted to use humans, why not keep them comatose? Why keep them mentally aware at all? We're so much more difficult to deal with when we're conscious.
I sure wish they'd have consulted with me when they were putting this story together. I could have given them some plausible work arounds for these conceptual problems.
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-Chaloobi
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2004 : 06:40:25 [Permalink]
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| I'd like to hear how you'd do it. Yes, you're right it's ridiculous, but I've seen the first two about a million times and have bought the third one and will continue to watch them. I don't understand why I like it. I bought Jesus Christ Superstar, too and it's completely ridiculous. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2004 : 08:02:50 [Permalink]
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Plausible work around to replace 'power plant' concept:
If you're a science fiction fan you've probably heard of the Hyperion series. The series features grand conflict between human and AI. The AI's, it turns out, were using human brains for data processing power without the humans knowing about it. Now consider if the AIs in the Matrix were using humans this way. Say that human neural networks have enormous processing power and they are cheap and easy to make and maintain - just grow humans and link up their brains. But the one draw-back is for the brains to develop and function properly - and thus be usable for processing - they need to be conscious, hence the artificial universe of the Matrix.
Of course this still doesn't explain why anybody would want to be out of the Matrix. So, some kind of oppression plot point has to be introduced . . . that or you can rearrange the entire structure of conflict in the movie. The oppression plot point could be that for certain functions the AIs want to perform, they need to cause extreme pain or fear for some of their human processors. This could, for example, manifest iteself in the Matrix universe as physical torture, or as an on-going plague (AIDS?), or a war (Vietnam style quagmire) . . . And when humans find out this suffering is artificial, they want to be free of the Matrix. . . .
Or, you can run with the One & Zion concept even further. IIRC the One results from an imperfection, calculation error, in the Matrix, a remainder value, if you will. And Zion was created - or allowed to be created - as a place for people who don't do well in the Matrix to go, an overflow or relief valve so-to-speak (though I don't know why the Machines wouldn't just kill anything that doesn't do well in the Matrix). So wouldn't it be interesting if the Zionites are interested in freeing people from the Matrix for their own purposes - enriching their gene pool or to recruit in their struggle with the AIs, or maybe for physical labor (wouldn't that be ironic if the Zionites were using humans as slaves in a similar way as the machines, but less compassionately?) but the people in the Matrix arn't necessarily interested in the real world and in fact often get pissed off and resist when they are 'freed.' And consider the One in this scenario - he has a moral dilema to deal with - resist the machines or resit the Zionites. Which is the greater evil to humanity? Should he get involved at all? Imagine the possibilities... |
-Chaloobi
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2004 : 08:24:51 [Permalink]
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| Interesting. Another thing I thought about was that they should reveal the Matrix in some obvious way to the masses and show all the people that did not want to leave the Matrix. Odd that they only showed one person and he was portrayed as a murderous traitor. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2004 : 09:20:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
chaloobi:
The other is that the idea they'd keep humans alive as a source of energy is just stupid. Why not use dogs or cows instead? Or nuclear reactors?
This makes me laugh because I often point out technical holes in fantasy or sci fi films to my girlfriend. Last night we happened to see "The Abyss" and I complained about how the big deep water rig was lifted quickly to the surface from an extreme depth on top of an alien ship without causing anyone inside the rig to get the bends. It was ok to except aliens being able to stop tidal waves that they created in mid break because the aliens had the ability to control water, but the bends part bothered me. I guess I am only able to suspend reality up to a point. Anyhow, after all the implausible goings on, my complaint made her laugh... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2004 : 12:16:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
Interesting. Another thing I thought about was that they should reveal the Matrix in some obvious way to the masses and show all the people that did not want to leave the Matrix. Odd that they only showed one person and he was portrayed as a murderous traitor.
Can you imagine telling someone in the Matrix about the 'real' world?
"Yeah, outside the Matrix the world is destroyed, nobody can survive on the surface, the last 'free' humans live in a dirty, sweaty rat hole at the bottom of nowhere, everybody eats sludge, they never get to see the light of day, and the machines are always trying to kill them."
"Gee, that sounds better than my luxury apartment, gourmet kitchen, beautiful girlfriend, beach house, and yacht here in the Matrix . . . . " LOL!
Really the people in the Matrix should be THANKING the AIs! It's a good trade - normal life in a 'normal' world in exchange for the use of you body energy you never miss anyway. What's the big deal? |
-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 04/13/2004 12:18:42 |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2004 : 17:37:50 [Permalink]
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Gawd, I hated "The Matrix." Truly, one of the worst movies I've ever seen. None of it was plausible to me.
I found it particularly unintentionally funny that some fans of the movie seem to think that Keanu Reeves is somehow shedding light on the existential mysteries of the universe by looking intense and wearing black.
Apologies to you Matrix fans out there.  |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2004 : 17:44:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Renae
Apologies to you Matrix fans out there.
Apologies accepted. We have all different tastes. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2004 : 18:52:14 [Permalink]
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Yeah. I see the humor in the movie. I mean, they all just look absurd, it's an absurd premise. But I love it. Maybe that's why. Good music too. I like the agents. It all has a great sense of humor. Like the part where Morpheus and Smith introduce each other. Or how about, "Listen to me, Coppertop, we don't have time for twenty questions. Right now, there's only one rule, it's our way or the highway." Beautiful!
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 04/15/2004 18:53:33 |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2004 : 19:54:23 [Permalink]
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S'okay. We all have guilty pleasure entertainment sources. Mine include show tunes, 80s butt rock, and John Grisham novels.  |
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dominic_dice
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 23:39:28 [Permalink]
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| Yeah. As much as it is unplausible for it to be real, I love the movies. so Ill think I will just ignore the errors. Though, I think might just take the Red pill in that situation, just out of sheer curisoty. With knowledge of what the red pill led to (notice Morpheus gave no warning of how crappy, dirty and smelly the world which led from the red pill)I would probably pick the blue pill. |
"Are you THE dominic_dice"
"No, a dominic_dice. I come in six packs now" |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2004 : 03:14:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by dominic_dice
Yeah. As much as it is unplausible for it to be real, I love the movies. so Ill think I will just ignore the errors. Though, I think might just take the Red pill in that situation, just out of sheer curisoty. With knowledge of what the red pill led to (notice Morpheus gave no warning of how crappy, dirty and smelly the world which led from the red pill)I would probably pick the blue pill.
Exactly - for all the illusion of free choice, whoever took that red pill had no idea what they were really choosing. |
-Chaloobi
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2004 : 08:18:34 [Permalink]
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I just caught "Reloaded" last night on HBO and I started thinking about somehting I noticed when I saw it in the theatre and an idea dawned on me. I think the Matrix #2 & #3 are metaphors for the economic struggle between poor and elite throughout the world; the northern hemisphere, in general, vs. the southern; 1st world vs. third, etc.
Consider these observations as evidence:
- Just about everyone that lives in Zion is apparently brown skinned.
- Zion by it's nature is poor, the people dirty and dressed in drab, home made looking cloths.
- Zion is highly spiritual, their entire population worshiping in the temple, having a religous rave to the beat of jungle drums . . .
- Meanwhile the Matrix is generally white and modern with all manner of material goodies available.
- The agents and the Architect are all white males in business suits. (Yes, the oracle - co-architect - is black but she's trying to save Zion . . .)
- The Matrix is supported on the backs of the people within it. They are exploited by the machines to maintain all their modern technological achievements.
- The freedom fighters are hopelessly out-gunned in the real world and outmatched in the Matrix. . . .
Sure sounds like a metaphor for the view many have of the world today. Consider some of the implications from this metaphor:
- It is implied that the modern conveniences of the first world are an illusion, just like the Matrix is an illusion; that real happiness is in the spirit, close to the heart, not in gadgets and consumables.
- It is also implied that the trappings of the first world are at heart soulless, like the machines.
- An even deeper consideration of this metaphor, IMO, falls in line with the false conflict. If the humans didn't fight the Matrix there would be no war. And why fight the Matrix? There is no pain or discomfort in their exploitation by the machines, so why should they fight it. Life in the Matrix is arguably better than life outside.
But this is also where the metaphor breaks down. In the 1st world's exploitation of the 3rd world, there is brutality and oppression, and there is no real opportunity for them to enjoy the life we do.
Anyway, just some interesting observations. I wonder if this was all intetional? My bet is yes.
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-Chaloobi
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dominic_dice
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2004 : 08:51:48 [Permalink]
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| I think humans are only 10% effiecient. Or at least thats what I heard anyway. |
"Are you THE dominic_dice"
"No, a dominic_dice. I come in six packs now" |
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