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coberst
Skeptic Friend
182 Posts |
 Posted - 05/20/2004 : 07:35:00
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I would like to suggest that we add an "Activism" function to this forum.
If we do I would like to make the following post to that function.
_______________________________________________________________
I wish to make explicit that which I conclude to be implicit.
Religious people recognize two avenues leading to truth: reason and revelation. Secular humanists recognize only reason as a legitimate avenue to truth.
When we attempt to persuade a religious person that his/her truth of revelation is false, because it does not meet the standards of truth as dictated by reason, we are on a “fool's errand”.
It appears to me that there are three primary sources of power: wealth, ideology and organization. There is no secular humanist organization with any significant wealth, organization or well-defined ideology of which I am aware. Secular humanists have no significant power.
If we are ever to be a force in the world we must organize. Perhaps in the process of organizing we might begin to develop a more cohesive ideology. I do not expect that secular humanists will ever acquire a base of power through wealth.
Why do we need power? Because religious fundamentalism is growing ever stronger and ever more menacing. Religious fundamentalism is an inherent characteristic of all religions whether it is Islam, Christianity, Judaism etc. A powerful secular humanist group could, perhaps, begin to move the minds of the population more toward a rational, rather than emotional, worldview.
To organize we must have a positive agenda. A “fool's errand” is not a positive agenda. It is time to brainstorm in search of a vigorous, compelling and positive agenda about which to organize.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2004 : 08:35:21 [Permalink]
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Interesting. I need to think about this for a while.
I'm not at all sure that fundieism in on the rise. But it certainly is noisier than it needs to be.
You might want to look at the American Atheist and the ACLU sites.
http://www.atheists.org/
http://www.aclu.org/safeandfree/safeandfreemain.cfm
And welcome to SFM!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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coberst
Skeptic Friend
182 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2004 : 01:00:57 [Permalink]
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| I am surprised at your remarks. Do you not think that the war on terror is a result of religious fundamentalism? Do you not think that Bush is a fundamentalist? He is certainly an Evangelical whom I regard as fundamentalist. I have become aware that skeptics, humanists etc. are alergic to any form of organized effort unfortunatly. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2004 : 01:33:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by coberst
I am surprised at your remarks. Do you not think that the war on terror is a result of religious fundamentalism? Do you not think that Bush is a fundamentalist? He is certainly an Evangelical whom I regard as fundamentalist. I have become aware that skeptics, humanists etc. are alergic to any form of organized effort unfortunatly.
Of course.
But do you have the evidence that it is, as a belief system(s), growing in numbers?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2004 : 20:09:17 [Permalink]
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coberst wrote:quote:
I have become aware that skeptics, humanists etc. are alergic to any form of organized effort unfortunatly.
Tell that to Randi, Shermer, and the thousands (if not millions) of people who belong to local skeptics groups.
I'll tell you something else: not all skeptics are interested in being anti-theists, or organizing explicitly for the purpose of waging a public-relations battle against religion in general. Randi is a good example of this, too. Best to separate and distinguish between secular humanists and general skeptics (the two terms are not synonymous), rather than attempt to lump all skeptics in the humanist pigeonhole.
Rather than create an "Activism" folder, I have been thinking about adding a folder called "About Skepticism," devoted to discussing the pros and cons of skepticism, how skeptics should act, methods of advancing skepticism among the populace and other "metaskepticism" issues. Do you think that your subject would be appropriate for such a forum?
How many other people here think an "About Skepticism" folder would be a good addition (in other words, one that would see a decent amount of activity)? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 20:19:31 [Permalink]
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| I just wanted to add that I'm a little disappointed at the response that last question I asked - in my last post, above - has received to date from the general membership here. Hint, hint. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2004 : 21:07:50 [Permalink]
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From what I have seen on other forums....not much! Great idea, but not something that seems to catch the casual vistors eye. I think Philosophy or maybe a general Skepticism folder covers it fine.
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Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2004 : 04:23:12 [Permalink]
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Agreein' with @.
I don't have the numbers and am too lazy to get them, but I think GS is probably the most used and certainly the most versitile of the fora. Therefore, a posting there will likely be read by most if not all visitors.
"If'n it ain't broke, don't fix it."
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2004 : 15:05:54 [Permalink]
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| More agreement with @tomic here. Having an "about skepticism" folder and a "general skepticism" seems double to me. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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