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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 06/10/2004 : 09:39:38
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Some people here (myself included) have been saying for a while that before many political discussions will be able to get very far here in the SFN forums, some terms need to be defined. I think it's about time we do so through discussion and argument. Dictionary definitions might be an okay place to start, but I don't think they will convey the entirety of meaning in these terms, as they are popularly used today (a distinction I'd like to stress: the origins of these words may be historically interesting, but it is today's popular meaning for which I am looking).
Here they are:- Left-Wing
- Liberal
- Democratic Party
- Centrist
- Independent
- Republican Party
- Conservative
- Right-Wing
Avoid, of course, making the mistake of thinking that any of the above terms are synonymous with any of the others.
For the record, I have no dog in this race except for keeping the thread on track. Instead, I am the one seeking answers, and may ask for clarification from anyone, as well. More terms may be added, later.
And so, someone should get the ball really rolling by taking one or more terms, and offering something of a definition for them. Thanks for your participation.
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 10:09:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Here they are:- Left-Wing
- Liberal
- Democratic Party
- Centrist
- Independent
- Republican Party
- Conservative
- Right-Wing
Avoid, of course, making the mistake of thinking that any of the above terms are synonymous with any of the others.
OK. I'll bite.
Left-wing = Communist form of government
Liberal = fiscally irresponsible, nonsensical, focused on giving handouts
Democratic Party = Spawn of Satan dedicated to removing God from everyday life
Centrist = fence sitters and flip-floppers
Independent = see Centrist. also claimed to be stealing Democratic Party votes
Republican Party = Corporate controlled enemy of the common man
Conservative = penny pinching, history revisionists who claim that Reagan was the best President the US ever had including Lincoln.
Right-wing = Fundamentalist Evangelical Church controlled, theocracy advocating, Christianity is the only "right" religion and should be taught to the youth of America.
My definitions differ. These are the popular definitions used by political pundits. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 06/10/2004 10:09:37 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 11:19:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Okay, now that the jokes are out of the way...
I'm not joking.
This is how I have seen these entities portrayed by political pundits and elected officials. These views are usually reflected by sheep people. (Straight ticket voters)
This is the ugly side of politics.
My definition would be a little less party-line.
Left-wing = a useless term to describe an ultra liberal stance
Liberal = advocating change with focus on civil liberties and greater parity between the majority and the minority
Democratic Party = A political party whose symbol is the Donkey or Ass
Centrist = looks at the platform, not the political affiliation of a candidate to determine who to vote for
Independent = Disillusioned with both party's combative stances, thinks there must be another option than that offered by both parties.
Republican Party = A political party whose symbol is an elephant
Conservative = advocating the status quo or change to a prior way of doing things with a focus on how things used to be
Right-wing = a useless word to describe an ultra-conservative stance. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 14:37:56 [Permalink]
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I'm with Val here, pretty much.
Many years ago, just to be a snot about it, I registered myself as Independent as soon as I was old enough (sadly, I was a couple of weeks too young to vote for Jack Kennedy - the voting age was 21 and I was a mere child of almost 21). I've long been disgusted, mainly due to local polititions in the State of Georgia, with both parties and there's no third party with any chance of success however great or beautifully insane their philosophy might be. I want the best for this country and no single party seems to be able to come across with it. Every election day, I hold my nose and vote for the lesser of the evils, as I see it. That's gonna be easy this year.
Definition: Independant.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 19:21:07 [Permalink]
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Left-wing: General term to describe the people who are somewhere left of center.
Right-wing: General term to describe the people who are somewhere right of center.
I don't see any extremist connotation in these terms alone. Now if you add "base" after either and your talking about the nuts on either end of the political spectrum.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 20:36:19 [Permalink]
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Val wrote:quote:
I'm not joking.
I believe you were, in a way. The defintions used by pundits are of little use here at the SFN, except when discussing those pundits. I'll give you the benefit of a doubt that you were aware that what I was looking for was useful general definitions for these forums. The first set of definitions you provided were, indeed, humorous in their extremism, but (again), useless in their applicability except as applied to extremists. I found them funny.quote:
This is how I have seen these entities portrayed by political pundits and elected officials. These views are usually reflected by sheep people. (Straight ticket voters)
And if one of 'em ever asks us, we should be prepared to offer up reasons why straight ticket voting is not an exercise of one's rights. I'd prefer fewer sheep in the world, and I'm not sure that extremist definitions help.quote:
This is the ugly side of politics.
Indeed. Also, I consider most of the pundits I hear (or read) to be jokes themselves. I don't think I'd take their definitons any more seriously than I do them.quote:
My definition would be a little less party-line.
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Democratic Party = A political party whose symbol is the Donkey or Ass
...
Republican Party = A political party whose symbol is an elephant
...
My requests for "defintions" of the Democrat and Rebuplican parties was more for "what does a registered [fill in the blank stand for, politically?" Your other six appear to be good starting places for discussion, thanks. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 06:35:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Val wrote:quote:
This is how I have seen these entities portrayed by political pundits and elected officials. These views are usually reflected by sheep people. (Straight ticket voters)
And if one of 'em ever asks us, we should be prepared to offer up reasons why straight ticket voting is not an exercise of one's rights. I'd prefer fewer sheep in the world, and I'm not sure that extremist definitions help.
I believe that even sheep people are exercising their rights by voting straight party ticket. They have a right not to think and let parties tell them what the other one stands for.
quote:
quote:
My definition would be a little less party-line.
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Democratic Party = A political party whose symbol is the Donkey or Ass
...
Republican Party = A political party whose symbol is an elephant
...
My requests for "defintions" of the Democrat and Rebuplican parties was more for "what does a registered [fill in the blank stand for, politically?" Your other six appear to be good starting places for discussion, thanks.
Fair enough
Democrats
Thwarting the Republicans
Usually supports the legal aspects of abortion
Usually supports gun control measures
Usually advocates socialized medicine
Usually supports social programs and expansion
Usually supports military procurement with some financial accountability
Usually advocates raising the minimum wage and federal general payscale
Usually supports environmental issues
Usually opposes supply-side economics
Usually supports raising the CAFE standards
Views the Supreme Court as an ideological battleground
Usually advocates the seperation of Church and State
Republicans
Thwarting the Democrats
Usually opposes the legal status of abortion
Usually opposes gun control legislation which they consider overbroad
Usually opposes socialized medicine
Usually advocates reducing unemployment fraud (methods are often like killing a fly with a sledgehammer)
Usually supports military procurement trusting that the military will not misappropriate the money
Usually opposes raising the minimum wage and increasing the federal general payscale
Usually advocates slackening federal environmental regulations to aid business
Usually advocates the use of supply-side economics
Usually opposes raising the CAFE standards
Views the Supreme Court as an ideological battleground
Usually advocates institutionally led school prayer
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 07:08:48 [Permalink]
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| Perhaps Neo-conservatives should be added to Dave's list for deffinition. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 09:35:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
I believe that even sheep people are exercising their rights by voting straight party ticket. They have a right not to think and let parties tell them what the other one stands for.
Damn straight! At least they are dragging their ass' down to the polls, unlike about half of the shiftless bastards in this country that are elegible to vote but don't bother. A 50% voter turnout is a disgrace! 
Boy-howdy, but didn't you just kick over one of my pet peeves!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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dominic_dice
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2004 : 05:36:15 [Permalink]
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| In an election recently there was a 40% turnout! |
"Are you THE dominic_dice"
"No, a dominic_dice. I come in six packs now" |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2004 : 08:34:59 [Permalink]
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Actually, dominic, there was a small-town election recently in which there were zero votes. Nobody ran for office, either. The town will probably disincorporate soon.
Perhaps a year before that, I remember hearing a story about another small-town election in which the one guy who was running for office failed to show up and vote for himself. Can you get elected with zero votes if you're uncontested? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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dominic_dice
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
53 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2004 : 06:47:23 [Permalink]
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| I don't know whteher to laugh, or cry about that...I think it is perhaps the education systems fault. In school I have spent only an hour studying politics-it consisted of us reading a small book to our selves for a lesson. |
"Are you THE dominic_dice"
"No, a dominic_dice. I come in six packs now" |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2004 : 10:36:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Some people here (myself included)<snip>
Dave, add the term Progressive to your list. I just heard an associate of Howard Dean refer to himself, Mr. Dean, and those who are like-minded as progressive on NPR this morning. That's probably the replacement term for the effectively demonized term 'liberal.' |
-Chaloobi
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