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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 05/17/2005 : 20:06:31
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Gotta love George Barna and his group of researchers. He appears to be the only public born-again Christian who's willing to just lay the data out as it exists. Of course, he tries to paint a pro-Christian picture whenever he can, but when that's clearly impossible, he doesn't trip all over himself making excuses.
Take "Born Again Christians Just As Likely to Divorce As Are Non-Christians," from last September, for example. A sample:You can understand why atheists and agnostics might have a high rate of divorce, since they are less likely to believe in concepts such as sin, absolute moral truth and judgment. Yet the survey found that the percentage of atheists and agnostics who have been married and divorced is 37% - very similar to the numbers for the born again population. Those numbers being 35% or 34%, depending on whether you count when a divorce occured (before or after being born again, respectively).
Of course, Barna points out that non-Christians have a higher rate of cohabitating without marriage, but including that factor appears to nudge the percentages up by only a couple points. Big deal.
Or, have a peek at 2001's "The Year's Most Intriguing Findings," which includes such "nastiness" as There has been a substantial deterioration regarding people's understanding of spiritual gifts, with a five-fold increase in born again adults who are aware of gifts saying God did not give them one, and half of all born again adults listing gifts they possess which are not among the spiritual gifts listed in the Bible. Even one-quarter of all Protestant pastors listed one or more gifts that they possess which are not identified in the Bible. OrAt least three out of ten born again adults say that co-habitation, gay sex, sexual fantasies, breaking the speed limit or watching sexually-explicit movies are morally acceptable behaviors. To sum up, for those who enjoy taking the holier-than-thou down a peg or two, George Barna has a wealth of information available. You may not agree with his religion or his religious views, but he appears to be a resource which should be cultivated, rather than discouraged.
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2005 : 00:12:08 [Permalink]
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| Al Frankin often points out the threat to marriage isn't gay unions it is divorce. He advocates a three strikes law for marriage. After the third divorce, maybe you shouldn't marry again. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2005 : 06:59:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Well, if only 35% of married couples get divorced, I imagine the #1 threat to marriage is death.
I've been married twice. I can see why. Divorce is when either you can't get someone to do it for you, won't do it yourself, or the other person isn't worth the effort.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2005 : 11:53:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Well, if only 35% of married couples get divorced, I imagine the #1 threat to marriage is death.
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Well, if only 35% of married couples get divorced, I imagine the #1 threat to marriage is death.
As a percent of total marriages, isn't the number higher? I looked at several stats and they were reported as per capita, per marrieds who had had divorces and per cent of total marriages. Also, time frames mattered whether one was looking at over one's lifetime or over one year. We really don't know of those married today who have never been divorced who will get divorced eventually.
http://www.divorcereform.org/rates.html
quote:
Here is an excerpt from the Census Bureau report, with a link to the full report:
"The National Center for Health Statistics recently released a report which found that 43
percent of first marriages end in separation or divorce within 15 years. The study is based on
the National Survey of Family Growth, a nationally representative sample of women age 15 to
44 in 1995. Bramlett, Matthew and William Mosher. "First marriage dissolution, divorce, and
remariage: United States," Advance Data From Vital and Health Statistics; No.323. Hyattsville
MD: National Center for Health Statistics: 2 1.
"Data in the Census report were collected from both men and women, age 15 and over, and a
different methodology was used than in the NCHS report.
"About 50% of first marriages for men under age 45 may end in
divorce, and between 44 and 52% of women's first marriages
may end in divorce for these age groups. The likelihood of a divorce
is lowest for men and women age 60, for whom 36 % of men
and 32 percent of women may divorce from their first marriage by
the end of their lives. A similar statistical exercise was performed in
1975 using marital history data from the Current Population Survey
(CPS). Projections based on those data implied that about one-third of
married persons who were 25 to 35 years old in 1975 would end their
first marriage in divorce.
"This cohort of people, who in 1996 were about 45 to 55 years old, had
already exceeded these projections as about 40% of men and
women in these ages had divorced from their first marriage. Current
projections now indicate that the proportion could be as high as
50% for persons now in their early forties."
http://www.divorcemag.com/statistics/statsWorld.shtml
Says USA divorce rate is 49% of total marriages. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2005 : 13:26:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Says USA divorce rate is 49% of total marriages.
Nobody said Barna is perfect. I'm sure his methodology and definitions varied considerably from the Census Bureau's, and I'm also sure that his sample size was considerably smaller than theirs. Although he did find that divorce among Baby Boomers was as high as 46%.
The line you quote from me is more-or-less a joke. Assuming that annulments account for 1% or less of marriage terminations, then death accounts for 100% - (35% + 1%) = 64% of "ended" marriages. If the Republicans really want to "protect" marriage, they should be legislating an end to death. (And yes, 50% is larger than 49%, so death still "wins" as the #1 cause of the end of marriages even with the Census figures.) |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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TG
Skeptic Friend
USA
121 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2005 : 14:13:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
At least three out of ten born again adults say that co-habitation, gay sex, sexual fantasies, breaking the speed limit or watching sexually-explicit movies are morally acceptable behaviors.
How in the world did breaking the speed limit get lumped in with all the sex, sex, and more sex?
Is speeding an abomination? I assume it's covered in Leviticus somewhere. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2005 : 21:32:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Says USA divorce rate is 49% of total marriages.
Nobody said Barna is perfect. I'm sure his methodology and definitions varied considerably from the Census Bureau's, and I'm also sure that his sample size was considerably smaller than theirs. Although he did find that divorce among Baby Boomers was as high as 46%.
The line you quote from me is more-or-less a joke. Assuming that annulments account for 1% or less of marriage terminations, then death accounts for 100% - (35% + 1%) = 64% of "ended" marriages. If the Republicans really want to "protect" marriage, they should be legislating an end to death. (And yes, 50% is larger than 49%, so death still "wins" as the #1 cause of the end of marriages even with the Census figures.)
But one must account for margin of error with the 49% figure. I'm just picking on you, Dave. You are the best nit picker on the board so that makes you a target. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 05/18/2005 21:33:04 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2005 : 11:50:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Good point, beskeptigal. 
Which one, the first point or the second one? |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2005 : 11:57:11 [Permalink]
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| Well, to be nit-picky, the third point. While I agree with all three of the other points you make (that the margin of error needs to be taken into account, that you're picking on me, and that my nit-picking makes me a target), the third point was the good one. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2005 : 01:02:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Well, to be nit-picky, the third point. While I agree with all three of the other points you make (that the margin of error needs to be taken into account, that you're picking on me, and that my nit-picking makes me a target), the third point was the good one.
That's funny, I didn't count my statement, (the middle one), of what I was doing as a point. But now that you pointed it out I see you would be correct in noticing my error. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2005 : 07:57:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
That's funny, I didn't count my statement, (the middle one), of what I was doing as a point. But now that you pointed it out I see you would be correct in noticing my error.
Well, as soon as I mention that you seem to have only missed 25-point-0 percent of your points, I think we'll have covered a majority of the definitions of the word 'point'. But perhaps my comments should be more pointed. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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