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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 02/03/2006 : 13:54:34
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http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/02/03/king.hospital.ap/index.html
It appears Mrs. Coretta Scott King was already in very grave condition when she was checked into the Santa Monica Health Institute, an "alternative clinic," in Rosarita Beach, Mexico by her daughter, Bernice. Mrs. King was registered at the clinic under an alias, Ruth Green.
The clinic's Web site:
http://www.hospitalsantamonica.com/
The Baja California government subsequently shut down the clinic. CNN's AP article goes on:
"[A]ccording to a news release from the office of Francisco Vera Gonzalez, Baja California state's health secretary, the hospital was conducting surgeries, X-ray procedures and internal medicine without the appropriate authorization. Other problems found by inspectors Thursday included unconventional treatments and the discovery of unknown substances at the hospital."
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/03/2006 14:06:34
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 14:11:17 [Permalink]
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| It also seems the clinic immediately claimed Ms King arrived there in such poor condition that they had not started any treatments. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 14:40:22 [Permalink]
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Note also, from the "hospital's" Web link, that its founder is a Chiropractor and a Doctor of Naturopathy (isn't that what his "ND" means?) Won't be long before these folks are back in business down there, even if under another name.
Yes, these quacks are emphasizing, and likely exaggerating, Mrs. King's initial bad condition. I note they make no mention of any pain management treatment.
A sad end for Mrs. King, being taken to a quack clinic to die. I'd rather just be placed out on an ice floe.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/03/2006 14:42:56 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 15:00:56 [Permalink]
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From the quack clinic's Web page, in the "Facilities" section, this hilarious quote:
"You won't find a better equipped alternative medicine hospital or clinic anywhere in Baja California."
One true statement, anyway! |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 22:54:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
A sad end for Mrs. King, being taken to a quack clinic to die. I'd rather just be placed out on an ice floe.
But why? Why, worse than being left on the ice? If she was that far gone, nothing could have been done, and if it was her choice then why not let her do what she thinks might give her hope? False hope maybe but it's not like she would have gotten better doing something else. On the ice, that's saying goodbye forever and maybe more sad.
I'd like to go happy in hope instead of teary and leaving. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 23:18:55 [Permalink]
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Snake snapped: quote:
But why?. . .
I should have made it clear that the "ice floe" solution would be my choice under such circumstances, not one I would wish upon others, including Mrs. King.
It would be my choice to die with the dignity of knowing I was not saddling my estate with charges from quacks.
At this moment, we don't know who made the decision to put Mrs. King into the clinic. The decision could have been her own, but considering her cancer and stroke, it could equally have been her daughter, Bernice, or someone else's decision.
Read the Quackwatch write-up on the clinic's founder, Snake. This guy's terrible. I hate to think of someone as decent as Mrs. King ending up in his hands.
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/donsbach.html
And I hate to think of how many other decent people must have gone to that clinic when they had not yet even exhausted real medicine's capabilities to help them.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 23:35:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
(isn't that what his "ND" means?)
ND = Not a Doctor
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 00:45:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Read the Quackwatch write-up on the clinic's founder, Snake. This guy's terrible.
I don't need to read such stuff, I usually know what it's going to say.
I agree with you for the most part and that was a good point about who pays after the person is dead. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 10:05:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Snake:
But why? Why, worse than being left on the ice? If she was that far gone, nothing could have been done, and if it was her choice then why not let her do what she thinks might give her hope? False hope maybe but it's not like she would have gotten better doing something else. On the ice, that's saying goodbye forever and maybe more sad.
I'd like to go happy in hope instead of teary and leaving.
I understand your point of view here. Hope is a good thing. But there are many who choose alternatives and are, in my view, murdered by quacks who are more interested in their bottom line than helping anyone. There are people who leave evidence-based treatment because they are sold a bill of goods by these quacks. And the sales for their goods are presented in a glossy pitch that makes their pseudo-science sound very much like the real deal.
Why go after conmen like Kevin Trudeau if we are not also serious about going after the kinds of quack alternative treatments he is leading his followers to?
Hope is a good thing, and my guess is that in some cases hope may even extend a life for a time. But sometimes it is just better to face the inevitable with dignity. And it is always better to not place your ultimate fate in the hands of snake oil salesmen and criminals.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 11:56:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Snake snapped: quote:
But why?. . .
I should have made it clear that the "ice floe" solution would be my choice under such circumstances, not one I would wish upon others, including Mrs. King.
I knew exactly what you meant. My Father-in-Law has expressed a desire, for when his time to die is near, to just wander out into the wilderness and be consumed by nature. How would he know it was his time to die? I don't know, but his brother did. He calmly and lucidly said that he was ready to die. Within 48 hours he died. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 13:25:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Snake snapped: quote:
But why?. . .
I should have made it clear that the "ice floe" solution would be my choice under such circumstances, not one I would wish upon others, including Mrs. King.
I knew exactly what you meant. My Father-in-Law has expressed a desire, for when his time to die is near, to just wander out into the wilderness and be consumed by nature. How would he know it was his time to die? I don't know, but his brother did. He calmly and lucidly said that he was ready to die. Within 48 hours he died.
My desire is to have my body consumed by wild animals once I die and everything useful is stripped from the corpse. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 13:40:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
I don't need to read such stuff, I usually know what it's going to say.
Yes, protect your narrow point of view by shielding yourself from information that you know will contradict it.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 13:41:07 [Permalink]
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Some things came to mind this morning. First, there's a certain implication to the "ice floe solution" that I'd not considered. Sitting out on that ice, I suspect I would very much regret my choice of venue when I saw the first approaching polar bear. Bear chow: not my chosen way to go.
Also, Though I would hate dying in the company of quacks (or bears), I would be willing submit to a real scientific experiment involving the chance of a cure, even if the probability of success was tiny. There are times, such as when you know you are dying anyway, to make a wild gamble, so long as the roulette tables are not rigged against you. Of course, expense and possible suffering would be issues to consider in making such a decision. But even losing the gamble in a scientific medical experiment could help others. In the hands of quacks, dying adds nothing to the body of medical science.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/05/2006 12:28:47 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2006 : 14:42:27 [Permalink]
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Here's a link to an article in the San Diego Union Tribune about Mrs. King and "Hospital Santa Monica" where she died:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060201/news_1n1clinic.html
The article includes pointed quotes by Doctor Barrett of Quackwatch. Clearly the reporting on Mrs. King and the clinic is all based on just a few public sources, and needs some serious investigative reporting to get at more of the facts.
Perhaps there are some such investgations under way now. It may also be that some information is being held back by some news organizations out of a sense of "good taste" simply because Mrs. King's passing is so recent. But much of the present reportage reads like promotional material for the quack clinic.
Example from an AP article, which only had this to say about the clinic:
"The Santa Monica Health Institute says on its Web site that it uses an eclectic approach to diseases that are often believed to be incurable. While most of the patients have cancer, the clinic says it also treats cardiovascular disease, diabetes, hepatitis C, arthritis, multiple sclerosis and other autoimmune diseases."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060131/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/mexico_king
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/04/2006 15:15:56 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
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