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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend
USA
446 Posts |
 Posted - 03/02/2006 : 16:32:00
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Not making this one up. As a recovering Catholic I am staying away from that town.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/02/catholic.town.ap/index.html
Does anyone know if this is consitutional?
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You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 03/02/2006 : 16:40:32 [Permalink]
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Paulos23 wrote: quote:
Not making this one up. As a recovering Catholic I am staying away from that town.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/02/catholic.town.ap/index.html
Does anyone know if this is consitutional?
No more Dominos Pizza for me! I sure don't think that a private town can be built in the US, where the Constitution doesn't apply.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/02/2006 16:41:00 |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2006 : 17:05:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Paulos23
Not making this one up. As a recovering Catholic I am staying away from that town.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/02/catholic.town.ap/index.html
Does anyone know if this is consitutional?
Well, there goes the neighborhood.
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2006 : 17:24:07 [Permalink]
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I like the idea. It'll skim off some of the frothing lunatics, to the relief of the rest of us. Let 'em preach at each other.
But, as a Bush is in support of it if not directly involved, they'll fuck it up somehow.
I like pepperoni, hot peppers, and anchovies on my pizza and Dominos seldom has the fish (and their peppers tend to be a mite wimpy). So, on those rare times when I buy a pizza, I get one at a small, local sub shack that makes excellent ones from scratch.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 06:55:01 [Permalink]
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City Council meetings will begin with this song:
quote:
There are Jews in the world, there are Buddists,
There are Hindus and Mormons and then
There are those that follow Mohammad, but
I've never been one of them.
I'm a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is
They'll take you as soon as you're warm.
You don't have to be a six footer,
You don't have to have a great brain,
You don't have to have any clothes on,
You're a Catholic the moment Dad came, because
Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.
Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.
Let the heathen spill theirs,
On the dusty ground,
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.
Every sperm is wanted,
Every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed,
In your neighborhood.
Hindu, Taoist, Morman,
Spill theirs just anywhere,
But God loves those who treat their
Semen with more care.
Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.
Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed,
In your neighborhood.
Every sperm is useful,
Every sperm is fine,
God needs everybody's,
Mine, and mine, and mine.
Let the pagans spill theirs,
O'er mountain, hill and plain.
God shall strike them down for
Each sperm that's spilt in vain.
Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed,
In your neighborhood.
Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.
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The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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geo berri
New Member
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 08:06:16 [Permalink]
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This doesn't surprise me in the least. Monaghan always wanted to be pope but they thought he was a little too conservative.  This will never happen in the US. The ACLU and the Libertarians will fight it til the money's gone. The religious right is already trying to tear down the walls of democracy. Maybe he should set up shop in vatican city.
Hold the anchovies please! |
Throw open the windows of your life and let the winds of knowledge blow through your mind, geo |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 09:26:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by geo berri
This doesn't surprise me in the least. Monaghan always wanted to be pope but they thought he was a little too conservative. This will never happen in the US. The ACLU and the Libertarians will fight it til the money's gone. The religious right is already trying to tear down the walls of democracy. Maybe he should set up shop in vatican city.
Hold the anchovies please!
'K Geo, we'll just put the anchovies on my half. Mmmm, anchovies.....
After some thought, I wonder if the only way they can go is to go backward. That's pretty obvious, of course; the question is: how far back?
I am assuming that these freaks are going to read the Bible literally and act accordingly. And that they will strengthen the definitions of heresy and aposty, et al., and attempt to in some Landoveresque way punish those trangressions against, not so much God, as the Church. Which will put them afoul of the laws of the land. And that is why I think it will fail, miserably. The hard core will demand to become the Church Militant, and the merely devout will leave in dispair of ever getting their heaven on earth.
When I lived in Vermont, many years ago, I knew a hard-core Catholic that deeply desired the return of the Church Militant. I met him during a couple of Letters to the Editor wars in the Burlington Free Press, and as he was from just outside St. Albans, not all that far from my digs in E. Fairfield, we were to meet in person during a Civil War Reenactement. He was a very pleasant and likable person with total tunnel vision, and that made him scary as hell. I would not be at all suprised if Frank C. were to settle in this new town and ultimatly be the death of it.
But Jebby'll fuck it up first....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 11:51:36 [Permalink]
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filthy wrote: quote:
When I lived in Vermont, many years ago, I knew a hard-core Catholic that deeply desired the return of the Church Militant. I met him during a couple of Letters to the Editor wars in the Burlington Free Press, and as he was from just outside St. Albans, not all that far from my digs in E. Fairfield, we were to meet in person during a Civil War Reenactement. He was a very pleasant and likable person with total tunnel vision, and that made him scary as hell. I would not be at all suprised if Frank C. were to settle in this new town and ultimatly be the death of it.
Very nice prose, filthy. I can actually visualize the guy.
Speaking of the Church Militant, how many of you know that the Inquisition still exists, and what its official name is? And do you know who headed it, until recently?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 12:07:16 [Permalink]
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filthy wrote: quote:
I like the idea. It'll skim off some of the frothing lunatics, to the relief of the rest of us. Let 'em preach at each other.
Yeah, that's my initial reaction too. But I still have reservations.
Reading this I couldn't help but think about the Amish. Since 1965, they've not had to pay taxes because they object to insurance (like Social Security) based on religious grounds. And since 1972, they've been permitted to remove their kids from public schools after 8th grade. In their little sheltered communities, they get to live outside lots of laws (including not reporting serious crimes to police and policing themselves with punishments handed down from local Bishops), and this is all done in the name of the Free Exercise Clause.
That said, I question whether allowing such communities to break and bend laws for the sake of their religious beliefs is actually not harmful, both to those communities and us outside of their communities. People think the Amish are all nice and peaceful, but there is evidence that they break laws all the time, especially ones against child abuse, molestation, and rape. But even when they get busted, the perpetrators tend to get extremely lenient sentences, and nobody is ever prosecuted for being an accomplice even though when authorities come around, everyone in the know is tight-lipped. This article about child abuse among the Amish is one of the most frightening things I've ever read. The story just gets sicker and sicker as it goes on: http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/January-February-2005/feature_labi_janfeb05.msp It's a long story, but just wait until you get to the girl whose mother had all of her teeth removed so she'd stop talking to authorities about being raped by her brother.
Reminds me also of what the Catholic Church has been able to get away with in terms of priests abusing children and young teens. Has anyone been prosecuted for not reporting these molesting priests to the authorities when they knew what was happening? Many church authorities had whole networks set up for removing offending priests temporarily while they tried to reform them on their own, and then put those assholes back in some other community so they could re-offend. Has there been an investigation of that followed by arrests and trials? I certainly haven't read about any – and I've tried to find news about it. I don't think there has been, and I think I know why: we have this insane respect for religion, or I should say, certain religions. I'm not saying religion should be especially held in contempt. But religious organizations should be treated like any other private entity. If somebody's crazy religion says they have to steal people's cats and then torture them in bizarre rituals, we wouldn't allow that. So why the fuck do we allow various Christians to get away with breaking laws, especially those put down to protect children?
Halfmooner wrote: quote:
No more Dominos Pizza for me! I sure don't think that a private town can be built in the US, where the Constitution doesn't apply.
The article said the guy sold the Pizza chain, so you can eat there and you won't be funding him. But maybe you mean the boycott to be symbolic. ;-) Anyway, the Amish are the one big exception that shows that private religious communities can and have been built in the US. In fact, new Amish towns are founded every year.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 03/03/2006 12:10:28 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 12:18:19 [Permalink]
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marfknox noted: quote:
The article said the guy sold the Pizza chain, so you can eat there and you won't be funding him. But maybe you mean the boycott to be symbolic. ;-) Anyway, the Amish are the one big exception that shows that private religious communities can and have been built in the US. In fact, new Amish towns are founded every year.
Nah, I just hadn't read that far when I proposed my personal boycott. I'm not a real big fan of purely "symbolic" boycotts, anyway.
I'd welcome Amish neighbors, any day, as opposed to crazed Catholics (or any other crazed types). Not that the Amish are always tolerant amongst themselves, as in their "shunnings." But at least the Amish don't seem to try to enforce their standards on their "English" neighbors.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 13:03:16 [Permalink]
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There are already dozens of towns like this in the badlands around Utah and the neighboring states.
Children raised to be good little soldiers, excess male children get booted out when they hit their teens, girl children married off by age 12 or 13, the towns basically ignore US law and enforce their own brand of insane religion as law.
When the authorities show up, they get the silent treatment and total non-cooperation from the locals. They pay their taxes, tithe the mormon church, and get away with their crimes.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 14:24:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
There are already dozens of towns like this in the badlands around Utah and the neighboring states.
Yeah, but I'll bet they don't have a 65 foot tall bloody gruesome guy getting murdered to spruce up their downtowns. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 15:25:49 [Permalink]
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Halfmooner wrote: quote:
I'd welcome Amish neighbors, any day, as opposed to crazed Catholics (or any other crazed types). Not that the Amish are always tolerant amongst themselves, as in their "shunnings." But at least the Amish don't seem to try to enforce their standards on their "English" neighbors.
In my opinion, the Amish fit right into the category of "crazed" religious types. But anyway, the point is, maybe if all the crazed religious types have their own little towns and insulated communities, like the Amish or the Mormons mentioned by Dude, they'll leave the rest of us alone. Of course they'll abuse their own women and children, but rather than breaking up the whole small community, suspected and known incidents of abuse should be prosecuted like any other. The only alternative to allowing such towns to form is stopping them by force. And somehow I think that might lend some more sympathy to their cause. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2006 : 16:11:24 [Permalink]
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But then again, the Amish, Mennonites, and even the Mormons don't have a history of violently oppressing outsiders, quite the contrary, although the Mormons were to pick up the habit in a minor way after the lynching of Joe Smith. The Catholics certainly do, and anyone actually joining up would be of the "off-the-deep-end" type. They are the oldest of the Christian cults and it is all but ingrained in their gospel. I do not think that this little murder of Rosary-rattling crows will enjoy much success at all due to having gotten it going a century & 1/2 or so too late.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2006 : 03:13:10 [Permalink]
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Update: T'would seem that our pizza man has, wisely, crawfished. quote:
Friday, March 3, 2006; 12:36 PM
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. -- Domino's Pizza founder Thomas S. Monaghan, who is helping to bankroll the birth of a Florida town and university, backtracked Friday from comments that he'd like the community to be governed by strict Roman Catholic principles.
His ideas about barring pornography and birth control, he said, apply only to the Catholic university.
"There are a lot of misconceptions," Monaghan said Friday.
Both the town of Ave Maria and its Ave Maria University, the first Catholic university to be built in the United States in four decades, are set to open next year about 25 miles east of Naples in southwest Florida.
Monaghan's comments Friday contrasted with statements he made last year to a Catholic men's group in Boston that pornographic magazines won't be sold in town, pharmacies won't carry condoms or birth control pills, and cable television will carry no X-rated channels.
A pity, really. I was looking forward to opportunitoes for some great ridicule discussions.... 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2006 : 12:30:49 [Permalink]
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You know, Filthy, that article about sexual abuse among the Amish reminded me of the recent pedophilia scandal on Pitcairn's Island. The common factor seems to be the properties of small communities isolated from a larger society.
Remember what Holmes said in "The Copper Beeches":
quote:
"They always fill me with a certain horror. It is my belief,
Watson, founded upon my experience, that the lowest and vilest
alleys in London do not present a more dreadful record of sin
than does the smiling and beautiful countryside."
"You horrify me!"
"But the reason is very obvious. The pressure of public
opinion can do in the town what the law cannot accomplish.
There is no lane so vile that the scream of a tortured child, or the
thud of a drunkard's blow, does not beget sympathy and indigna-
tion among the neighbours, and then the whole machinery of
justice is ever so close that a word of complaint can set it going,
and there is but a step between the crime and the dock. But look
at these lonely houses, each in its own fields, filled for the most
part with poor ignorant folk who know little of the law. Think of
the deeds of hellish cruelty, the hidden wickedness which may
go on, year in, year out, in such places, and none the wiser."
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"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers |
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