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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
 Posted - 04/26/2006 : 06:41:30 [Permalink]
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| Haven't seen any around my part of the woods, but if I do I might express my "Day of Truth" to them. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2006 : 10:35:46 [Permalink]
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I find the term 'bigotry' interesting here. On the web site, they're defending themselves against the term because they say (as usual) that it's they who have been unable to express their opinion.
What about expressing their opinion on this subject is bigotry? I'm not sure where that line is. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2006 : 11:46:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
I find the term 'bigotry' interesting here. On the web site, they're defending themselves against the term because they say (as usual) that it's they who have been unable to express their opinion.
What about expressing their opinion on this subject is bigotry? I'm not sure where that line is.
I'm not calling their expression of their opinion bigotry. I'm calling their opinion itself bigotry. A bigot is some who stands for intolerance. The Christian fanatics who attack gays are intolerant; they do not want Christians to have the same rights as anyone else. And they base their opinion on a handful of scriptural passages that Christian theologians and sects do not agree on. Let alone if Christians agree, there is no secular basis for their stance against equal rights for gays, so that stance certainly fits the bill for bigotry.
If you want to argue that Christians shouldn't be limited or censored from expressing that opinion in certain environments such as public schools, that is an argument over local policies. Indeed, that's a complex problem that every school and community has to deal with. But that is not what I'm complaining about here. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 04/26/2006 11:49:33 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2006 : 11:50:47 [Permalink]
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| Also, Gorgo, I'm not saying that Christians should be forcibly stopped from doing this "Day of Truth" stunt. This is a free country and bigots get the same freedom of expression as everyone else. I'm simply criticizing their bigotry. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2006 : 12:21:52 [Permalink]
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I'm with you on this, marfknox. Bigotry's bigotry, even when it's legal bigotry. Call it as you see it.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2006 : 12:56:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
quote:
I find the term 'bigotry' interesting here. On the web site, they're defending themselves against the term because they say (as usual) that it's they who have been unable to express their opinion.
What about expressing their opinion on this subject is bigotry? I'm not sure where that line is.
I'm not calling their expression of their opinion bigotry. I'm calling their opinion itself bigotry. A bigot is some who stands for intolerance. The Christian fanatics who attack gays are intolerant; they do not want Christians to have the same rights as anyone else. And they base their opinion on a handful of scriptural passages that Christian theologians and sects do not agree on. Let alone if Christians agree, there is no secular basis for their stance against equal rights for gays, so that stance certainly fits the bill for bigotry.
If you want to argue that Christians shouldn't be limited or censored from expressing that opinion in certain environments such as public schools, that is an argument over local policies. Indeed, that's a complex problem that every school and community has to deal with. But that is not what I'm complaining about here.
I don't think that holding an opinion that a sex act between two men or two women as a perverse or unnatural act would be considered in and of itself to be bigoted. Now it you throw rocks at their car or house I would say this would be the point where the behavour could/should be called bigoted.
In all seriousness I think the word bigot has been so over used in the public square that most people don't even bat an eye when the accusations of bigoted behaviour fly around by anybody against anyone. I am sure we all are bogoted against something and none is immune... |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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dglas
Skeptic Friend
Canada
397 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2006 : 12:57:53 [Permalink]
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From the linked to site:
"Last year more than 1,100 students from over 350 schools participated and shared the Truth with their classmates. But there are so many more who need to hear the Truth, spoken in love."
Yup. Can't you just feel that gay-hating love? 
Doesn't it make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside?
They're just all puppies and butterflies they are. |
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- dglas (In the hell of 1000 unresolved subplots...)
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The Presupposition of Intrinsic Evil
+ A Self-Justificatory Framework
= The "Heart of Darkness"
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2006 : 14:29:00 [Permalink]
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| I think whether they are bigoted or not, their literature makes every effort not to appear bigoted. They're very careful to word what they say to appear to be against foolish behavior, and not the people committing that behavior. That's quite a contrast to the "God Hates Fags" approach and that is mild compared to the outright lynching that maybe some of these people would have been involved not so many years ago. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2006 : 19:14:50 [Permalink]
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| Yes, they're being careful in order to hide their prejudice underneath Jesus' cloak of "love and compassion," all the while claiming that homosexuals are engaged in "personal and socially destructive behavior." They even claim to have a stranglehold on the Truth-with-a-capital-T, for no other reason than the Bible tells them that Jesus is the source of that Truth. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2006 : 20:39:28 [Permalink]
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Bill wrote: quote:
I don't think that holding an opinion that a sex act between two men or two women as a perverse or unnatural act would be considered in and of itself to be bigoted. Now it you throw rocks at their car or house I would say this would be the point where the behavour could/should be called bigoted.
Sorry, Bill, but you are wrong. This is a project of the Alliance Defense Fund, which is defined on the website as "a legal alliance defending the right to hear and speak the Truth through strategy, training, funding, and litigation." (my emphasis) That litigation does not just include protecting Christian freedom of speech (which the ACLU does all the time BTW). They are trying to impose the rigid dogmatic morality of a minority of Christians onto the whole of society. Specifically, these people are the ones standing in the way of equal rights and benefits for gay families. Heck, these are the people that wanted to keep sodomy laws around too so gays couldn't even have sex legally! Clearly these people are intolerant toward gays. That is why it qualifies as bigotry. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 04/26/2006 20:53:34 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2006 : 20:51:51 [Permalink]
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gorgo wrote: quote:
I think whether they are bigoted or not, their literature makes every effort not to appear bigoted. They're very careful to word what they say to appear to be against foolish behavior, and not the people committing that behavior. That's quite a contrast to the "God Hates Fags" approach and that is mild compared to the outright lynching that maybe some of these people would have been involved not so many years ago.
It's just intentionally that slick. Read their website and the site of their parent organization (http://www.alliancedefensefund.org/main/default.aspx) and the rhetoric reveals itself.
One buzzphrase is “gay agenda”. The phrase has no meaning except from a warped or dishonest point of view. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_agenda
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 04/26/2006 20:55:22 |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2006 : 23:18:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
In all seriousness I think the word bigot has been so over used in the public square that most people don't even bat an eye when the accusations of bigoted behaviour fly around by anybody against anyone. I am sure we all are bogoted against something and none is immune...
Bill, you are right, and if people were honest they'd admit they can't treat everyone equal every time.
A bigot is someone who favors his own group and what's wrong with that? It happens all the time. Buddies are always going to stick together. Gee, just thinking, it happens on this very site, often. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 03:15:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
A bigot is someone who favors his own group and what's wrong with that? It happens all the time. Buddies are always going to stick together. Gee, just thinking, it happens on this very site, often.
Not just favors his own group, but is intolerant of other groups. That's the distinction here, and Marf's (and my) point here is that it seems that they've hired some P.R. people to try to make it look like they're not bigots. Well, she's not saying that "it seems," she's saying they are bigots and they're not hiding it well.
We all probably have some level of prejudice and even bigotry. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 04/27/2006 03:26:01 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 04:12:59 [Permalink]
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From the cybernews story: "Students can't be expected to make good, well-informed decisions if they're only being told part of the story. Allowing the communication of one viewpoint and claiming it's the only viewpoint is advocating, not educating,"
So they call their view "the truth".
[Irony meter is leaning into the red zone.] |
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