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ergo123
BANNED
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810 Posts |
 Posted - 10/17/2006 : 13:56:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Paulos23
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
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Originally posted by pleco
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Originally posted by ergo123
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Originally posted by pleco
Because it is more expensive to load a large jet with jet fuel and ram it into the building. Plus the shortage of suicidal pilots (probably a union issue.)
But Building 7 was not hit by a plane.
No, but the others were, which led to 7's collapse (if you ascribe to that theory, of course).
How did WTC 1 & 2 lead to WTC 7's collapse? Supply evidence for your accusations, please.
Oh please, others have gone over this before. WTC 7 was damaged by debree from WTC 1 & 2 when they fell. NIST has found that there was damage on about a third of the south face to the center and to the bottom - approximately 10 stories - about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out.
Look at http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_june04/appendixl.pdf at page L-20, and it shows the amount of damage to the building.
Another thing I found in this document is the pics on L-27 which shows the east penthouse colapsing first before the rest of the building and before any signs of explosions. If they where using explosives to bring the building down, why would they take out the east penthouse first? Funny how every consperacy movie I have seen on WTC 7 ignores that.
And how does the asymetric damage to that building lead to a symetric collapse?
I've seen the penthouse issue addressed--it's evidence of explosives being used; just like Silverstein said. |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
| Edited by - ergo123 on 10/17/2006 14:10:46 |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 14:08:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbertquote:
[quote]Originally posted by ergo123
So, scenario details aside, it is conceivable that explosives were used to help the buildings fall.
[quote]No, you have only established a possible motive to use explosives by a few individuals. You haven't at all shown how it's conceivable that these few individuals were able to execute such a plan. Oh, but how they did it is only mere "details."
Okay--they hired a bunch of guys to go into the towers to "upgrade" all the tenants' Internet access points--the wires that bring the service to their office, ahead of each company's firewall/router/whatever. Under that cover, they'd have all the time in the world, and reason to be crawling around in the ceilings and floors, to get to where they needed to go to place any detonation equipment they would need later. Then once the bomb dogs were pulled from the buildings, they went in and attached the explosive devices. All in plain sight--the most surreptitious way to get anything done.
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No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 14:14:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
Okay--they hired a bunch of guys to go into the towers to "upgrade" all the tenants' Internet access points--the wires that bring the service to their office, ahead of each company's firewall/router/whatever. Under that cover, they'd have all the time in the world, and reason to be crawling around in the ceilings and floors, to get to where they needed to go to place any detonation equipment they would need later. Then once the bomb dogs were pulled from the buildings, they went in and attached the explosive devices. All in plain sight--the most surreptitious way to get anything done.
Or they could really have been installing internet access points. Where is the evidence you promised? I thought we were done with story time.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 14:31:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
Okay--they hired a bunch of guys to go into the towers to "upgrade" all the tenants' Internet access points--the wires that bring the service to their office, ahead of each company's firewall/router/whatever. Under that cover, they'd have all the time in the world...
Nah, most of the companies would be screaming bloody murder for the interruption of their Internet service.quote:
...and reason to be crawling around in the ceilings and floors, to get to where they needed to go to place any detonation equipment they would need later.
All the "big pipes" for Internet service would run up through the core of the building along with all the other utilities. Your hypothetical workmen would have little call to go out into office space. A much better cover would be having these guys upgrading or inspecting the sprinkler system and/or the smoke detectors, but that's still going to require collusion with the PANYNJ itself, since otherwise a single phone call ("this guy says he's here to do something with the smoke detectors, do you know what he's talking about?") would bring the plan to a halt. So limiting your prior objection to just Federal evidence was misplaced, to say the least - the state would have to be in on the scam, so we can reject statements by state employees regarding anything seen or heard at the site, right? Like those doing the cleanup who claimed to have seen molten pools of metal. Obviously such a claim is a distraction planted by the government(s) in order to cause confusion and cover up the real tragedy of 9/11, which would otherwise have been discovered by now by many more people. And you fell for it, ergo. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend
USA
446 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 14:57:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
quote:
Originally posted by Paulos23
Oh please, others have gone over this before. WTC 7 was damaged by debree from WTC 1 & 2 when they fell. NIST has found that there was damage on about a third of the south face to the center and to the bottom - approximately 10 stories - about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out.
Look at http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_june04/appendixl.pdf at page L-20, and it shows the amount of damage to the building.
Another thing I found in this document is the pics on L-27 which shows the east penthouse colapsing first before the rest of the building and before any signs of explosions. If they where using explosives to bring the building down, why would they take out the east penthouse first? Funny how every consperacy movie I have seen on WTC 7 ignores that.
And how does the asymetric damage to that building lead to a symetric collapse?
I've seen the penthouse issue addressed--it's evidence of explosives being used; just like Silverstein said.
The internal damage that the debre caused, plus the fires that further weeken the supports caused the slow collapse from the penthouses outward, then the south side fell and the rest of the building followed. Which is why when you look at a pic of the WTC 7 debre pile after the collapse you see the north face on top drapped over the rest of the building. It took 18 seconds for that building to collapse, which started way before any 'explosive plumes' showed.
How does the collapse of the penthouses show that it was due to explosives? |
You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 15:16:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
Okay--they hired a bunch of guys to go into the towers to "upgrade" all the tenants' Internet access points--the wires that bring the service to their office, ahead of each company's firewall/router/whatever. Under that cover, they'd have all the time in the world, and reason to be crawling around in the ceilings and floors, to get to where they needed to go to place any detonation equipment they would need later. Then once the bomb dogs were pulled from the buildings, they went in and attached the explosive devices. All in plain sight--the most surreptitious way to get anything done.
Or they could really have been installing internet access points. Where is the evidence you promised? I thought we were done with story time.
You asked for additional storyline. Don't complain that I gave it to you...
And why are you so angry? |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 15:32:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
And why are you so angry?
Why are you so afraid of facts that you insist on speculating about people's emotional states instead? What does this preoccupation say about you? What does it further say about you that your analyses tend to be so wrong?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 17:40:31 [Permalink]
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H., I bet that ergo is just confused by your avatar. Actually, now that I think about it, he really is treating people as if their avatars offered a big clue as to their personalities. Good thing this forum is all digital, or he'd be doing handwriting analyses on us.  |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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sts60
Skeptic Friend
141 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 18:19:57 [Permalink]
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Since it appears that fire alone can bring down a building like WTC 7 in 7 or 8 hours,
Complex question. Fires alone did not bring down WTC 7, but fires plus impact damage plus a crippling blow to the fire service plus an enormous rescue job in the immediate area did. First sentence and you're already off in the weeds.
how do controlled demolition companies justify spending the time and money to bring down a building with explosives?
Because they don't want flaming debris crashing down unpredictably around the area, as happened with WTC 7.
Don't get hung up on the terminology. Think of the "control" in "controlled demolition" as conrtol over the event--not necessarily the debris.
No, it's not just terminology. Demolition companies are routinely paid a lot money to control where the debris go.
Let's say you want to start a global war against terrorism...
Oh yeah--we will need to build lots of weapons and pay contractors to help us in this "new kind of war." And while it will be your buddies getting rich, they know how to take care of you...
The pretense that this is just for "illustitive" (sic) purposes is as flimsy as the proposed motivation. It is at odds with the real ideological and practical motivations of the Administration at the time, compared to which terrorism was a minor concern. It also ignores the fact that their "buddies" were already getting rich with a wide variety of weapons programs, tax breaks, and loosening of restrictions on resource extraction.
So, scenario details aside, it is conceivable that explosives were used to help the buildings fall.
Scenario details, evidence, physics, logic, and so on aside, yes, it is conceivable. It's also conceivable that the Greys did it before Elvis could stop them.
And there is evidence that explosives were used--which I will provide in the near future...
Yeah, well, good luck with that.
The rest of the blithering about buildings being prepared for demolition under guise of working on networks (which is nothing like the work necessary for controlled demolition), or that Silverstein said explosives were used (he didn't), or that a building in the collapse zone of a burning thousand-foot skyscraper would be used as a "bunker" to remotely control detonations in one of the most RF-rich environments in the world, or that the same damaged and burning building was blown up with explosives later - despite the collapse indicators observed by firefighters well before the collapse - is just more of the same recycled drivel.
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| Edited by - sts60 on 10/17/2006 18:21:13 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 18:21:04 [Permalink]
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| Hey, here's a simple question: how many multi-floor fires have there been in "tube in a tube" steel-and-concrete buildings in the last 50 years? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 10/17/2006 : 19:20:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Okay--they hired a bunch of guys to go into the towers to "upgrade" all the tenants' Internet access points--the wires that bring the service to their office, ahead of each company's firewall/router/whatever. Under that cover, they'd have all the time in the world, and reason to be crawling around in the ceilings and floors, to get to where they needed to go to place any detonation equipment they would need later. Then once the bomb dogs were pulled from the buildings, they went in and attached the explosive devices. All in plain sight--the most surreptitious way to get anything done.
 Can't be done that way. Ergo, you're really reachin' for it and gettin' funnier with each and every post. Go to the links I posted in the other thread, and you'll get a laugh too. Or not....
Pass the popcorn, Doc!  
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 19:33:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
And why are you so angry?
Why are you so afraid of facts that you insist on speculating about people's emotional states instead? What does this preoccupation say about you? What does it further say about you that your analyses tend to be so wrong?
I don't get your logic there. But why are you so angry? |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 19:37:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
quote:
Okay--they hired a bunch of guys to go into the towers to "upgrade" all the tenants' Internet access points--the wires that bring the service to their office, ahead of each company's firewall/router/whatever. Under that cover, they'd have all the time in the world, and reason to be crawling around in the ceilings and floors, to get to where they needed to go to place any detonation equipment they would need later. Then once the bomb dogs were pulled from the buildings, they went in and attached the explosive devices. All in plain sight--the most surreptitious way to get anything done.
Can't be done that way. Ergo, you're really reachin' for it and gettin' funnier with each and every post. Go to the links I posted in the other thread, and you'll get a laugh too. Or not....
Pass the popcorn, Doc!
And what evidence do you have for this claim? |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 19:42:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
I don't get your logic there.
You don't seem to get a lot.
quote:
But why are you so angry?
Why are you so focused on this? The answer, of course, is that I'm not angry, but I'm sure you're waiting for this answer so you can launch into one of your tiresome psychobabble rants about how I must be repressing my anger or something. 
Get back to me when you have that evidence you promised.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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A simple question
