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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 10/28/2006 : 11:50:36 [Permalink]
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| I knew UFOs were real. Thanks, Egroie |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 13:18:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
In another topic of mine, DaveW posted this link:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3428547197082474953
Please view the clip and tell me if you
A) Believe it to be an example of a building collapse due to controlled demolition, or,
B) Believe it to be an example of a building collapse due to gravity alone (i.e., nothing helped the collapse).
I would like to hear from all of you, so please don't be shy about responding.
As others have said, both. First the explosives blew up scructural support, after that gravity took over. Just as with the WTC, only there structural damage was caused by Jumbojets.
Interesting. No wonder it is so difficult to communicate with many of you: you have no logic skills. Option B is a totally exclusive option. Option A excludes Option B. Yet you want "only B" plus A--which excludes B... 
Just because we understand physics doesn't mean we do not understand logic. There is no downward force applied by the explosives, gravity does all the work here.
When the structure is structurally sound, the support counters the forces of gravity. There is a balance between gravity and structural support that is keeping the building from falling. When you remove the structural support, there is only one way but down. But in whole the explosion sequence you see there is no specific downward force applied. The only thing the explosions do is in fact doing is removing the upward force of the structure. The falling motion is purely caused by gravity, there are no other downward forces acting on the structure.
Gravity does not do all the work in a controlled demolition. The explosives help the collapse by removing structural support and allowing the rest of the building to fall!! Without the explosives, as pointed out by others, there would be no collapse. |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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McQ
Skeptic Friend
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 13:19:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
I knew UFOs were real. Thanks, Egroie
Now I'm just plain disappointed in anyone who actually gave a serious answer to ego's lame question. I'm beginning to think that you guys must enjoy being led around by the nose by someone who has never had any intention of having a serious discussion. Come on! If he was serious or sincere about his case (as say, Michael Mozina) I can see going round and round for pages and pages. But you guys know he's not for real any more! Wake up!
You've allowed him to frame nearly every debate you've had with him, and he's dodged, obfuscated ignored... pretty much everyone and everything.
I know you'll defend your cases, and I won't try to argue further, but for Pete's Sake, this board is for having rational discussion, not fourth grade, "Did so!" "Did not!" debates ad nauseam.
Just my opinion on dealing with someone who deserves no more than derision. Don't get me wrong, I'm still on your side, but you have to know when it's time to pack it in and admit victory (it was back on page one of every thread ego participated in, by the way).
Again, just my opinion on dealing with steaming piles. You don't need to do as Cheech and Chong and pick it up, smell it, and taste it to know it's shit. You just walk around it and keep going. |
Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Gillette |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 13:35:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by McQ
quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
I knew UFOs were real. Thanks, Egroie
Now I'm just plain disappointed in anyone who actually gave a serious answer to ego's lame question. I'm beginning to think that you guys must enjoy being led around by the nose by someone who has never had any intention of having a serious discussion. Come on! If he was serious or sincere about his case (as say, Michael Mozina) I can see going round and round for pages and pages. But you guys know he's not for real any more! Wake up!
You've allowed him to frame nearly every debate you've had with him, and he's dodged, obfuscated ignored... pretty much everyone and everything.
I know you'll defend your cases, and I won't try to argue further, but for Pete's Sake, this board is for having rational discussion, not fourth grade, "Did so!" "Did not!" debates ad nauseam.
Just my opinion on dealing with someone who deserves no more than derision. Don't get me wrong, I'm still on your side, but you have to know when it's time to pack it in and admit victory (it was back on page one of every thread ego participated in, by the way).
Again, just my opinion on dealing with steaming piles. You don't need to do as Cheech and Chong and pick it up, smell it, and taste it to know it's shit. You just walk around it and keep going.
Are you saying that you can prove that there weren't UFO involved in destroying that building, or what? |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 15:11:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
Gravity does not do all the work in a controlled demolition. The explosives help the collapse by removing structural support and allowing the rest of the building to fall!! Without the explosives, as pointed out by others, there would be no collapse.
I said that in my post, so what's your point. It helps if you respond to what I said.
As I pointed out (and you apparantly did not understand?) the explosives do not produce any downward force. So, as I have said in that post, the only thing the explosives do is remove upward force from the structure. All the force that enables the collapse comes from gravity. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 18:55:46 [Permalink]
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Remember, this is a person who doesn't know the difference between mass and weight. Its going to be hard to explain to him that gravity pulls things down.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2006 : 07:25:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
Interesting. No wonder it is so difficult to communicate with many of you: you have no logic skills. Option B is a totally exclusive option. Option A excludes Option B. Yet you want "only B" plus A--which excludes B...
It is clearly ergo123 who does not have any logic skills, otherwise he would have answered furshur's objections:
quote:
Originally posted by furshur
A collapse due to a jet crashes into a building means it is not case B.
An earth quake causing a collapse means it is not case B.
Corrosion of the support beams causing a collapse means it is not case B.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2006 : 08:27:52 [Permalink]
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| doc: i didn't answer furshur's objections because i agreed with him. |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2006 : 12:08:11 [Permalink]
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I grin when I look at the title of this thread. A "reality check" is not supposed to be like a "coat check." You are not expected to leave reality at the door with an attendant when you enter these premises.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 10/29/2006 12:16:51 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2006 : 16:07:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
doc: i didn't answer furshur's objections because i agreed with him.
If you agree with us that the answer is "None of the above" then why only give us these above two answers?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2006 : 18:27:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
Gravity does not do all the work in a controlled demolition. The explosives help the collapse by removing structural support and allowing the rest of the building to fall!! Without the explosives, as pointed out by others, there would be no collapse.
The explosives did their part and then gravity did the rest. Do you really have a point that you are trying to make here. Or are you just exposing your alter ergo, Obvious-man. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2006 : 18:43:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
Gravity does not do all the work in a controlled demolition. The explosives help the collapse by removing structural support and allowing the rest of the building to fall!! Without the explosives, as pointed out by others, there would be no collapse.
The explosives did their part and then gravity did the rest. Do you really have a point that you are trying to make here. Or are you just exposing your alter ergo, Obvious-man.
The point was to see if dave's pov--that the building fell by gravity alone was tenable. I thought it was obvious that the explosives helped, but wanted to see what everyone thought. |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2006 : 19:16:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
The point was to see if dave's pov--that the building fell by gravity alone was tenable. I thought it was obvious that the explosives helped, but wanted to see what everyone thought.
My "pov" was only the logical extension of your assertion that the NIST report did not present a "theory of collapse." You were the one who divided things up into different phases of time, not I. But once you did that, it was easy to see that every controlled demolition of any building has a "pre-collapse" phase, a "poised for collapse" phase, and a truly gravity-only actual collapse phase.
Trying to pass off my following your chain of thought as something that I actually believed is the lowest, most juvenile form of rhetoric, ergo. It's going to be quite interesting to see just how long you can keep your tantrum going. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2006 : 19:43:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
quote:
Originally posted by moakley
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
Gravity does not do all the work in a controlled demolition. The explosives help the collapse by removing structural support and allowing the rest of the building to fall!! Without the explosives, as pointed out by others, there would be no collapse.
The explosives did their part and then gravity did the rest. Do you really have a point that you are trying to make here. Or are you just exposing your alter ergo, Obvious-man.
The point was to see if dave's pov--that the building fell by gravity alone was tenable. I thought it was obvious that the explosives helped, but wanted to see what everyone thought.
I saw it as an attempt to deflect attention from your inane CD argument for the WTC collapse. Actually, I see this particular thread as nothing more than a diversion. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Reality Check
