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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
 Posted - 03/06/2007 : 18:13:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
Oh, and:
What eveidence do you have that the "majority" of the green party are "woo woos"?
You are the one making that claim, and I'm calling bullshit on it. You don't get to use more neocon/creationist tactics by challenging me to prove you wrong!
You made the claim, now lets see the evidence. Put up, or retract your bullshit claim.
Your party platform link doesn't say anything about party membership.
My evidence comes from Green Party conferences on CSPAN where woo causes are often overwhelmingly evident.
I'll see what else I can find.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 18:21:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
I was referring to the people in the Green Party who are believers in extreme conspiracies about government and corporate powers. They don't trust the mainstream ...
Yeah, doesn't sound like anyone we know here. Just crazy Greens. No pots or kettles at all. *cough cough* |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 18:45:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Your party platform link doesn't say anything about party membership.
My evidence comes from Green Party conferences on CSPAN where woo causes are often overwhelmingly evident.
I'll see what else I can find.
So you are making the leap from limited exposure to a few nuts to the idea that the majority are woo-woo.
Just admit you are wrong and move on.
The link to the green 10 key values I posted was only an effort to get you to see past your bigotry. If the majority of the green party were crazies, then it seem as if those values and the platform would include more woo-woo crap. Which, obviously, isn't actual evidence on the party demographics.
But YOU are making a specific claim.
Again, present the evidence to support your claim that the "majority" of green party members are "woo-woo".
Face it, you don't have any such evidence. Retract your claim and apologize for being a political bigot.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 18:46:25 [Permalink]
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Good grief. Mycroft and Dave claim I'm far left and now I'm what? A right wing Democrat? Do my posts not show a strong reflection of Green Party values?
But I am concerned about the large number of people the Green Party attracts that are "out there". I've been involved in political activism for a long time. It's a real pain when the Socialists Worker's Party shows up at your "US Out of El Salvador" march with signs reading "Free the Gang of Four".
I was attacked from all sides when I posted about the "World Can't Wait" protest rally last year. Everyone had a cow the initial organization was the Communist Party even though the rally drew very wide support and there was no more communist presence there than any other group.
There is a radical fringe, with many woo believers and they are attracted to the causes of the Green Party. That's all I said and it's pretty silly to claim they are not attracted to the Greens. That doesn't mean the ideals of the Green Party are bad. Of course they aren't. If you think that's what I think you haven't been reading my posts.
And I have my views, Cune, about why things are the way they are. Those views don't include big conspiracy theories. Causes of things like the anemic mainstream media have multiple facets, not one big corporate conspiracy. Corporations have characteristics, it isn't a conspiracy. And the large amount of corruption I may comment on is well documented. So I'll not accept your claim I am an extreme conspiracy believer, cover that cough of yours.
I, like a number of other people, would like to see a Green Party that wasn't bogged down with members that had woo beliefs. I'm sure there are plenty of intelligent people in the party. But just like those people that detracted from our antiwar marches, there are people in the Green Party that when they take the mike to ask questions at political events make statements that will keep the Green Party from gaining mainstream acceptance for a long time to come.
Re idiots, got a better name for those who are "critical thinking challenged"? I probably should find a word that doesn't detract as much from everything else I post.
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 03/06/2007 18:47:50 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 18:53:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Good grief. Mycroft and Dave claim I'm far left...
Good grief, indeed. "Mycroft and Dave claim I'm far left" is incorrect.quote:
I was attacked from all sides when I posted about the "World Can't Wait" protest rally last year. Everyone had a cow the initial organization was the Communist Party even though the rally drew very wide support and there was no more communist presence there than any other group.
Your memory is faulty. "I was attacked from all sides" and "Everyone had a cow" are both incorrect. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 19:10:52 [Permalink]
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I wonder if there are any large Green forums Dude. I can only find ones with very few participants. If you know of any large forums the nature of the general discussion comments might be revealing.
I'm willing to look at other sources of information than the events I have seen televised. But it has to be evidence of the member's personalities not the Party's political stand. I agree with the political values. I just don't think they have much chance of being effective whereas the alternative option of Progressives taking over the Democratic Party is possible much as the right wing Evangelicals took over the Republican Party.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 19:14:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Good grief. Mycroft and Dave claim I'm far left...
Good grief, indeed. "Mycroft and Dave claim I'm far left" is incorrect.quote:
I was attacked from all sides when I posted about the "World Can't Wait" protest rally last year. Everyone had a cow the initial organization was the Communist Party even though the rally drew very wide support and there was no more communist presence there than any other group.
Your memory is faulty. "I was attacked from all sides" and "Everyone had a cow" are both incorrect.
My memory isn't faulty, Dave. You are making the faulty assumption I am only talking about this forum. Take a look at the replies to my WCW thread on JREF.
And you posted the claim if I thought Mycroft was right wing when he said he was a Democrat I must indeed be far left. This is the last I will reply to this specific issue in this thread, since you said I should just tell you.
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 03/06/2007 19:14:58 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 19:36:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Re idiots, got a better name for those who are "critical thinking challenged"? I probably should find a word that doesn't detract as much from everything else I post.
How about "people?" |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 19:47:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
My memory isn't faulty, Dave. You are making the faulty assumption I am only talking about this forum.
I made no assumption that you were "only talking about this forum." I had very good evidence to not make such an assumption. You knew that I had good reason to not make that assumption, yet you chose to state that I made that assumption in spite of the evidence.quote:
And you posted the claim if I thought Mycroft was right wing when he said he was a Democrat I must indeed be far left.
Oh, right! There's my faulty memory at work. I apologize to you, beskeptigal, for claiming that your claim was incorrect. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 22:02:51 [Permalink]
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| I've got to go with the Democrats...same reason as kill. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2007 : 02:11:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
quote:
Re idiots, got a better name for those who are "critical thinking challenged"? I probably should find a word that doesn't detract as much from everything else I post.
How about "people?"
Not specific enough. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2007 : 02:57:50 [Permalink]
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beskeptigal said:
quote:
I wonder if there are any large Green forums Dude.
Red herrings aside, YOU made the claim that the "majority" of people in the green party are "woo woos".
I'm just asking you to present some real evidence to back that claim up. Anecdotes and your personal limited exposure to some crazy people do not support your claim that the majority are irrational.
I find your general attitude and outlook towards other political parties to be quite irrational. You blast libertarians like a FAUXNews talking head going after liberals, and now the "majority" of greens are irrational. You have even devolved into fallacious argumentation (challenging me to prove your unevidenced claim "wrong") and refuse to retract unsupported assertions when you can't provide evidence to back them.
I'd bet you that I agree with your specific politics almost entirely. There are very few things we probably wouldn't have the same general outlook on with regard to the major issues of the day. But this thing you are doing, bashing and picking "do you still beat your wife" style arguments about other political parties is extremely irrational. It is a display of political bigotry that doesn't have a place in a skeptics forum.
You don't get a free pass on logic, critical thinking, and evidence just because the topic is politics. Those things are the underpinings of all discussions here and when you abandon them you shouldn't be suprised when others call you on it.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2007 : 07:05:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
quote:
Re idiots, got a better name for those who are "critical thinking challenged"? I probably should find a word that doesn't detract as much from everything else I post.
How about "people?"
Not specific enough.
I think if you eliminate all the people who believe something that has no basis in reality that would leave only you and me, and I'm not too sure about you.  |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2007 : 15:45:46 [Permalink]
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I'm looking for other kinds of evidence, Dude, but since you have none to the contrary, I have to go with my observations until other evidence surfaces.
I found one Green group campaigning against fluoridating water. One Green website had some comments about promoting science that was directed to party members. "We should...." was the tone. I'll continue looking.
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2007 : 15:56:01 [Permalink]
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beskeptigal said:
quote:
I'm looking for other kinds of evidence, Dude, but since you have none to the contrary, I have to go with my observations until other evidence surfaces.
There you go again!
THE BURDEN OF PROOF LIES WITH THE CLAIMANT!
You are making a claim, and I want the evidence that shows the "majority" of greens are "woo-woos".
A few wedsites with crazy fuckers saying crazy shit won't cut it. I could EASILY build that same case against any political party out there.
LEAVE THE LOGICAL FALLACIES AT HOME.
Seriously, you should read yourself. You are sounding more and more like a crazed fundie arguing some point of religion.
And anyway.... I have given you evidence to the contrary. You just have this bullshit in your head that you can't get past.
IF THE MAJORITY OF GREENS ARE IRRATIONAL, EXPLAIN WHY THEIR OFFICIAL PLATFORM ISN'T SATURATED WITH IRRATIONAL  .
Platforms, as you well know, are decided by comitee! A comitee made of of the most active and vocal elements of a party, in fact.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Party, Party, Party!
