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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 03/06/2007 : 10:04:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
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If there was a 50-50% chance that GW was man made, then I'd rather err on the side of caution and do something about it.
Funny, I've seen this same statement structure and logic used when asking someone in regards to their eternal destination. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 10:06:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Bill is even fawning over a French Socialist, forcryingoutloud.
So do you dismiss Claude Allegre and his final conclusion, a man who has dedicated his life's work to the issue, simply for being a French Socialist or is it just because he disagrees with you?
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 03/06/2007 10:21:05 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 10:07:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Neurosis
quote:
God must have told him, so that means even god has gotten with the program.
Weren't you supposed to be getting me all the massive amounts of evidence for MMGW that was presented in the other thread? Well, I'm waiting. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 10:17:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
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Bill, we looked at your last thread and found your source to have serious credibility issues, none of which you ever acknowledged or addressed.
I was told Timothy Ball was dismissed because he had to close of ties to the oil company, so rather then get into a big debate on Tim's creds I referenced a new gent, David Bromwich, professor of professor of atmospheric sciences in the Department of Geography, and researcher with the Byrd Polar Research Center at Ohio State University. I don't remember anybody challenging his creds so what was there to address or acknowledge?
I next referenced Claude Allegre, one of France's leading socialists and among her most celebrated scientists, and among the first to sound the alarm about the dangers of global warming. Claude Allegre received a Ph D in physics in 1962 from the University of Paris. He became the director of the geochemistry and cosmochemistry program at the French National Scientific Research Centre in 1967 and in 1971, he was appointed director of the University of Paris's Department of Earth Sciences. In 1976, he became director of the Paris Institut de Physique du Globe. He is an author of more than 100 scientific articles, many of them seminal studies on the evolution of the Earth using isotopic evidence, and 11 books. He is a member of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences and the French Academy of Science. Dr. Allegre has the highest environmental credentials. The author of early environmental books, he fought successful battles to protect the ozone layer from CFCs and public health from lead pollution.
Nobody challenged the creds of Dr. Allegre so what was I to address or acknowledged? Kil did try to portray him as deep in retirement, but that is not even true. Claude Allègre is officially of retirement age, but continues to perform academic work at the Institut de Physique du Globe de Paris (Institute of Geophysics, Paris).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_All%C3%A8gre
With a wealth of data now in, Dr. Allegre has recanted his views. To his surprise, the many climate models and studies failed dismally in establishing a man-made cause of catastrophic global warming. Meanwhile, increasing evidence indicates that most of the warming comes of natural phenomena. Dr. Allegre now sees global warming as over-hyped and an environmental concern of second rank.
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So who dismissed evidence "with a handwave?"
You did.
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I'm sure these (new) claims of yours will also be addressed, and I'll reserve judgement until I and others have had time to do so.
Let me know what you find out.
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But that doesn't explain why you've failed to acknowledge all previous efforts on our part, or why your position didn't change when your errors were pointed out to you.
I won't cite Ball any more if that will make you happy. But please show me where you challenge Bromwich and Allègre's creds and conclusions and on what basis.
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People here have been quite consistent in explaining that they'll go with the best evidence and the scientific concensus on this matter.
The consensus of scientists who happen to agree with their pre-held beliefs, that is.
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You've not explained how the views of one dissenter hold more sway with you than the dozens of other climatologists who uphold the consensus.
I can and have listed more then one. And I don't think your "consensus" is as much a slam dunk as you believe that it is. In fact, as we learn more and gather more evidence on the theory it appears that the skepticism over the MMGW theory is rising among those that once preached the message. Case in point Claude Allègre
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And why is it you can't answer without becoming insulting?
I have posted on this forum for to long and I guess that over time I must have become adapt to the environment. Sorry.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 03/06/2007 11:06:54 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 10:18:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
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Blah, blah, blah...
*yawn* |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Neurosis
SFN Regular
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 10:18:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
If there was a 50-50% chance that GW was man made, then I'd rather err on the side of caution and do something about it.
Funny, I've seen this same statement structure and logic used when asking someone in regards to their eternal destination.
Funny how you have the short end of the percentages on that bet too. |
Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson
[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink
Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.] |
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Neurosis
SFN Regular
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 10:19:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
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Originally posted by Neurosis
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God must have told him, so that means even god has gotten with the program.
Weren't you supposed to be getting me all the massive amounts of evidence for MMGW that was presented in the other thread? Well, I'm waiting.
No dumbass, you are responsible for your own education. I don't care about it in the least. |
Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson
[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink
Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.] |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 10:29:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Neurosis
Funny how you have the short end of the percentages on that bet too.
We will be using your own personal percentages, I'm rather sure. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 10:31:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Neurosis
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
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Originally posted by Neurosis
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God must have told him, so that means even god has gotten with the program.
Weren't you supposed to be getting me all the massive amounts of evidence for MMGW that was presented in the other thread? Well, I'm waiting.
No dumbass, you are responsible for your own education. I don't care about it in the least.
There are no massive amounts of evidence for MMGW in the other thread, is there? That would explain why you are getting so hot under the collar. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 03/06/2007 11:10:59 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 10:48:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
My curiosity impels me to ask: Where in your scriptures does your god require humanity to destroy the earth? It must be there somewhere, else so many of you fundies would not so determined to support its destruction with your desperate global warming denials againt the mass of scientific evidence. Just where does your god instruct us to be such bad stewards of his creation?
And so how many times in your existance here on earth do you estamate that you have taken the trash cans down to the end of your driveway for the weekly trash pickup? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 10:53:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
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And, of course, consistent and fair-minded as you are, Bill, you also praised Claude Allegre's credentials as a daring anti-establishment scientist back in the days when he insisted that global warming was caused by man.
I would have been just a lad in those days and my only concern at that time would have been where the party is at for the coming weekend.
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Sadly, I have no scientific credentials, Bill.
Yet you will dismiss Claude Allegre, a man with a longer list of scientific credentials then you have posts on this forum, without even so much as an explanation as to why you, with no scientific credentials, have rejected him. And then in the next breath you defend Al Gore, a xxxxxxx politician for Pete's sake, as the persecuted martyr for your MMGW cause. (sigh)
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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leoofno
Skeptic Friend
USA
346 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 11:06:31 [Permalink]
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Gotta check out Conservapedis's take on this: (http://www.conservapedia.com/Global_warming):
"It should be noted that these scientists are motivated by a need for grant money in their field of climatology. Therefore, their work can not be considered unbiased, though no more than any scientist in any other field .[4]. Also, these scientists are mostly liberal athiests, untroubled by the hubris that man can destroy the Earth which God gave him.[5] "
Damn those money-grubbing climatologists! Screwing the whole world just to get more grant money!  |
"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 11:23:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by leoofno
Gotta check out Conservapedis's take on this: (http://www.conservapedia.com/Global_warming):
I found this snipet interesting:
Al Gore, Vice President under President Clinton from 1992 to 2000, is a high profile advocate of the full global warming theory. Promoters of this theory, including many prominent scientists, call for international treaties, like one proposed in Kyoto, Japan, to limit carbon emissions using a combination of conservation and technological innovation.
The theory is widely accepted within the scientific community despite a lack of any conclusive evidence,
Really???
though that is not to say there is no evidence at all
Sounds like a far cry from the slam dunk, case closed, power point presentation that Gore likes to preach to his choir. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 11:24:50 [Permalink]
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I'm not even going to attempt to estimate how many times I've taken out the trash, as it seems somewhat irrelevant here.
I don't think Al Gore's a martyr in the least. In fact, I think he's kicking ass on this issue. Gore was told long ago by political advisers to avoid this issue, because people didn't care. Thankfully, he did care enough to speak out anyway. Now GW's actually a positive issue for him. That's a big turn-around, one that his moral courage made happen.
I don't dismiss Claude Allegre or his credentials, but I do point out that his new opinion on global warming is contrary to the general scientific consensus. I think his opinion is unlikely to be correct. You seem to be dismissing a far, far larger mass of scientific opinion than I have, so any argument based upon authority (essentially a weak to fallacious argument) would seem to work against you, Bill.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/06/2007 11:29:31 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2007 : 11:35:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by leoofno
Gotta check out Conservapedis's take on this: (http://www.conservapedia.com/Global_warming):
"It should be noted that these scientists are motivated by a need for grant money in their field of climatology. Therefore, their work can not be considered unbiased, though no more than any scientist in any other field .[4]. Also, these scientists are mostly liberal athiests, untroubled by the hubris that man can destroy the Earth which God gave him.[5] "
Damn those money-grubbing climatologists! Screwing the whole world just to get more grant money!
Also, these scientists are mostly liberal athiests, untroubled by the hubris that man can destroy the Earth which God gave him
I have no trouble with the hubris that man can destroy the Earth that God gave to him. Shoot, a full and unabaided nuclear exchange between nations would just about do it. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Man Made Global Warming skepticism on the rise
