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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 16:45:43 [Permalink]
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I think it could be argued that humanity's relative lack of evolutionary instinctual "predispositions" is itself a strength of generalism that has served it, for the most part, well. Our species has become free of many of the constraints of other creatures, largely because our brains are less restricted in how they can operate. (Think of the brain of an ant as a dedicated processor, and ours as more of a general-purpose computer.)
Because evolution has removed so many of the constraints on our brains, we are capable of the kind of abstract thinking that has made planning for the future, agriculture, science and technology possible. Of course, having unrestricted abstract thinking abilities also means that we can envision the supernatural, imagine and even believe in unseen fairies, and blow ourselves up for the True Faith.
Religion is simply an unfortunate and inevitable by-product of the evolution of the human brain.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/21/2007 16:48:53 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 03/21/2007 : 18:36:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
Dave touched on this comment...
I've got another half-finished reply on another computer. I'll get back to it sometime soon.
But yeah, part of the gist of it is that without a complete evolutionary history, it's sometimes awfully hard to tell whether a trait was activily selected for, or if it just tagged along with something else. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 20:58:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
Dave touched on this comment...
I've got another half-finished reply on another computer. I'll get back to it sometime soon.
But yeah, part of the gist of it is that without a complete evolutionary history, it's sometimes awfully hard to tell whether a trait was activily selected for, or if it just tagged along with something else.
In my mind, that brings up a point that argues against Intelligent Design. If there were an omnipotent intelligent agency at work, would we not expect to see a regular editing out of unused genetic material? Instead, we see this genetic mish-mash of unused old rules, like a collection of outdated "blue laws" legislated over the centuries by some Southern US state. Not exactly the sign of either intelligence nor design. (Please pardon that digression.)
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/21/2007 20:58:58 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 21:22:46 [Permalink]
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Humbert wrote: quote:
Dave touched on this comment, but I should add that the expression of a trait or tendency is not evidence that the trait is beneficial. Sometimes deleterious or disadvantageous traits arise because they are linked to other traits which are beneficial.
Yes, that is true. The classic example in humans is the high frequency of Sickle Cell Anemia in people of African decent due to a connection with resistance to malaria.
quote:
So arguing that religion must have some benefits simply because we tend to be religious is not a valid line of reasoning.
I concede to having made an error, and one that I really should have known better on.
That said, faith is more complicated than eye stalks or sickling hemoglobin, and I currently suspect that all of faith can't be explained away as byproducts. This is making me want to read up more about it. Think I'll order “Religion Explained” by Pascal Boyer… I've heard good things about it. But I digress.
Thanks for keepin' me honest guys.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 03/21/2007 21:29:17 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2007 : 21:27:42 [Permalink]
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Half wrote" quote:
I think it could be argued that humanity's relative lack of evolutionary instinctual "predispositions" is itself a strength of generalism that has served it, for the most part, well. Our species has become free of many of the constraints of other creatures, largely because our brains are less restricted in how they can operate. (Think of the brain of an ant as a dedicated processor, and ours as more of a general-purpose computer.)
Because evolution has removed so many of the constraints on our brains, we are capable of the kind of abstract thinking that has made planning for the future, agriculture, science and technology possible. Of course, having unrestricted abstract thinking abilities also means that we can envision the supernatural, imagine and even believe in unseen fairies, and blow ourselves up for the True Faith.
That's so simplified it's pretty much useless. C'mon Half, you are a man who has shown a great interest in human evolution. Evolutionary psychology has just scratched the surface in terms of explaining human nature. You make a lot of assumptions and generalizations here about things we really need to learn way more about.
quote:
Religion is simply an unfortunate and inevitable by-product of the evolution of the human brain.
That is so presumptuous given where we are in the scientific study of religion. I notice, too, that you say "religion" when we were talking about faith. The two are not synonymous. Faith is a component of religion (and not even a necessary one - there have been doubters who continued to practice their religion), and religion's social/organization aspect is just as defining of it as a whole. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 03/21/2007 21:28:27 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2007 : 00:26:39 [Permalink]
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No, I'll stick with that at least until someone points out some specific flaws in my reasoning. You didn't, Marf, but just waved your hands, instead. It just makes sense to me that a developed ability to do abstract thinking also carries with it the potential risk of mental wheel-spinning on religion, faith, or any other kind of bunkum. And please excuse me for seeing religion and faith as being more or less the same kind of bullshit.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2007 : 21:23:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
Half wrote" quote:
I think it could be argued that humanity's relative lack of evolutionary instinctual "predispositions" is itself a strength of generalism that has served it, for the most part, well. Our species has become free of many of the constraints of other creatures, largely because our brains are less restricted in how they can operate. (Think of the brain of an ant as a dedicated processor, and ours as more of a general-purpose computer.)
Because evolution has removed so many of the constraints on our brains, we are capable of the kind of abstract thinking that has made planning for the future, agriculture, science and technology possible. Of course, having unrestricted abstract thinking abilities also means that we can envision the supernatural, imagine and even believe in unseen fairies, and blow ourselves up for the True Faith.
That's so simplified it's pretty much useless. C'mon Half, you are a man who has shown a great interest in human evolution. Evolutionary psychology has just scratched the surface in terms of explaining human nature. You make a lot of assumptions and generalizations here about things we really need to learn way more about.
quote:
Religion is simply an unfortunate and inevitable by-product of the evolution of the human brain.
That is so presumptuous given where we are in the scientific study of religion. I notice, too, that you say "religion" when we were talking about faith. The two are not synonymous. Faith is a component of religion (and not even a necessary one - there have been doubters who continued to practice their religion), and religion's social/organization aspect is just as defining of it as a whole.
I'm with Half on this one.
Before already sore points get stubbed, I'd like to preface this as saying that this is what I believe given the experiences I have with faith both internally and externally and religions.
Religions are founded by someone who has a great deal of faith. (Or some sort of condition described by certian sections of the ICD-9-CM.)
As evolutionary development predispose humans as pack/herd critters and provided brains capable of abstract and unrestricted thinking, faith and religion were a short and logical step for the species to take. The same great capacity to create fanciful stories such as Asimov's alien worlds and future societies and Zelazny's multiverse in the mists also make us capable of giving us a coping mechanism and control mechanism for the herd at large.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
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Thank Stark
