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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 03/22/2007 : 08:47:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
I would love to see the bastard impeached. But I think it would not serve us right now to put the energy there.
Better to devote a lot of time to why 8 U.S. Attorneys were fired.  |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2007 : 09:19:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Rubicon95
Hmm.. You are aware the Clinton administraton fired 93 prosecutors and that did not cause any ripple in the water. Not that it matters anymore. BTW (I voted for Clinton)
It's expected that a President appoint new USA's. Indeed, Clinton's action was quite normal. Repeating this fact as some proof that Bush's actions now are normal is nothing but RNC spin. (And a testimony to the power of the RNC spin-machine, since this point comes up ad nauseum on blogs and internet forums...) Note, for instance, in this document, that when Bush took office, he, too, engaged in a transition to remove most or all of Clinton's 93 USA's.
What's unusual is for some USa's to be fired in the middle of a President's term. Particularly when some were in the top ten in terms of prosectuions and the like. |
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Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend
USA
220 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2007 : 10:37:24 [Permalink]
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| Interesting. It is also on a hot bed issue to of immigration. Thanks for the links. |
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Carmichael
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2007 : 11:24:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Rubicon95
Hmm.. You are aware the Clinton administraton fired 93 prosecutors and that did
not cause any ripple in the water. Not that it matters anymore. BTW (I voted for
Clinton)
The Democrats are smart. They won't do anything to impeach Bush or try to remove him.
The political back lash would be intense. If they are smart, they'll attack the policies
with a death by a thousand cuts approach.
Be honest with yourselves, do you guys really really want, President Dick Cheney and Vice Pres Karl Rove?
If you believe that the "idiot" could wreak that much havoc in 6 years, just think what
those guys could do in 2 years.
Only 22 more months
Ah, but at the beginning of his term as is wont of a president. Bush did it because the attorneys refused to help him on his pursuit of trying to discredit those who opposed him from his party or those democrats who were seeking re-election. But difference, don't you agree? |
And if I can make myself strong, then I will be somebody. |
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Carmichael
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2007 : 11:29:01 [Permalink]
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| I don't think Cheney would survive any Bush impeachement, and thank heaven, Rove will be gone from this Gonzales ordeal. |
And if I can make myself strong, then I will be somebody. |
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Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend
USA
220 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2007 : 12:07:11 [Permalink]
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You'd need evidence for that accusation. It's believable, though but there is not evidence (yet?) of that kind of political machination.
Not kotowing to the Pres. immigration policy might be a better venue. So he removes those Atty's who do not tow the party line and puts in people who are loyal to the party but not to reality.
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2007 : 12:54:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Rove will be gone from this Gonzales ordeal.
Rove will never be gone, I think, unless they manage to convict him of some criminal act.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 19:45:35 [Permalink]
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Gonzales will be out of office within days, I think. Monica Goodling, a senior council at the White House, and the President's liaison with Gonzales, has announced she will take the Fifth in Senate hearings. While refusing to testify on the grounds it could incriminate oneself is her right, it also indicates the likelihood of criminality. Goodling is now on leave of absence, and she'll never have a government job again.
I think it's pretty obvious that Gonzales and Rove are going down, and very soon. It's also clear to me that either the President okayed the US Attorney firings, or runs such a sloppy ship that he allows others to act in his name. Either way, I suspect that within weeks a real impeachment movement will be beginning to roll.
President Harry Truman was given a wooden desk plaque by an old Missouri crony and confidant (and a distant relative of mine). On the front, read: "The BUCK STOPS here!" (For those of you unfamiliar with all the details of American slang, this means "I accept ultimate responsibility." Filthy would know the poker origins.) Most if not all recent Presidents could have benefited from that simple wisdom, but George W. Bush, a moral coward who has always stood carefully in the background as others took the heat and bullets, most of all.
Truman's famous sign had another side, one less well known, but, I think, equally important. On the back, it said:
Again, an explanation: The slogan of the State of Missouri is "Show me." A fine skeptical sentiment. When one says "I'm from Missouri, he or she's saying, "Show me evidence." That was Truman's style: Get evidence, make decisions, then take responsibility for the decisions. Have we ever seen either of these sides in the self-described "Decider"?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/26/2007 19:55:56 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2007 : 20:48:31 [Permalink]
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I should add to your comment, HM, 'Bush must have approved', the complete lack of press inquiry into that fact.
Rubicon, your statement, "Not kotowing to the Pres. immigration policy", as I understand it, was the Republican spin in the oversight hearings. Someone obviously gave them the talking point.
First, what evidence is there Bush is interested in prosecuting immigration cases? Bush has said he favors another amnesty program. And second, no evidence was presented that only the fired attorneys weren't prosecuting the same volume of immigration cases. In other words that alone does not explain why these guys who just happened to be in the middle of a Republican or Big Tobacco case or like our WA attorney failed to do the Republican bidding when the State Governor's race was being questioned were the ones who were fired.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 05:11:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Rubicon95
You'd need evidence for that accusation. It's believable, though but there is not evidence (yet?) of that kind of political machination.
Not kotowing to the Pres. immigration policy might be a better venue. So he removes those Atty's who do not tow the party line and puts in people who are loyal to the party but not to reality.
The firings were almost certainly political. This administration wanted USA's who would go after Democratic politicians and trumped up issues like voter fraud in order to increase the Republican control of government. Indeed, the immigration argument was only used for USA's in southern states like NM and CA. (Note this story on USA McKay in WA who was essentially fired because he wouldn't pursue a voter fraud charge-- even though there was no evidence for it!)
The immigration argument is particularly stupid in the case of Carol Lamm in CA. Lamm was in the middle of exposing one of the biggest government corruption cases in the history, and they're mad because of her office's efforts on immigration? (There's much dissucsion on this at TPM.) |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 13:12:48 [Permalink]
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As I looked through federal cases there seemed to be a mix of convictions upheld and reversed covering all sorts of political issues. But it starts to get worrisome when you see the office of the President getting involved in manipulating the federal court system directly. Here are some examples why.
Judge dismisses Terkel v. AT&T; By Ryan Paul | Published: July 26, 2006 - 09:09AM CTquote:
District Judge Matthew F. Kennelly dismissed yesterday a lawsuit brought against AT&T on behalf of author Studs Terkel and other citizens of Chicago opposed to the National Security Agency (NSA) wiretap program. Filed by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) after the revelation of the NSA's highly classified warrantless eavesdropping activities, the suit alleges that AT&T colluded with the secretive government agency in an extralegal domestic surveillance conspiracy that involved providing the government with access to private consumer phone records. The ACLU had hoped to convince the court to issue an injunction that would prevent AT&T from perpetuating its participation in the surveillance program.
During the case, the federal government invoked the state secrets privilege in an attempt to get the case thrown out. Deputy Assistant Attorney General Carl J. Nichols argued that explicit confirmation or denial of the program's existence would constitute an unacceptable risk to national security, saying that "the present situation involves a risk of terrorist attacks against the United States, so even the smallest risk is not a risk that we should tolerate."
Opponents of the NSA wiretap program argue that widespread public knowledge of the program already eliminates any security advantages that could potentially have been gleaned from secrecy and that the government is exploiting the state secrets privilege to obscure misconduct from scrutiny. In the end, the court sided with the government's lawyers, and Judge Kennelly stated that public disclosure of the facts associated with the case could potentially assist terrorists. "The court is persuaded that requiring AT&T to confirm or deny whether it has disclosed large quantities of telephone records to the federal government could give adversaries of this country valuable insight into the government's intelligence activities.
Democracy Now! Headlines for 2-17-06quote:
U.S. Judge Dismisses Maher Arar Lawsuit
A U.S. federal judge has dismissed a lawsuit filed by a Canadian citizen against the U.S. government for detaining him and sending him to Syria where he was jailed and tortured. Maher Arar was the first person to mount a civil suit challenging the U.S. government policy known as extraordinary rendition. In October 2002, he was detained at JFK airport while on a stopover in New York. He was then jailed and secretly deported to Syria. He was held for almost a year without charge in an underground cell not much larger than a grave. Charges were never filed against him. The federal judge, David Trager, said he could not interfere in the case because it involves crucial national security and foreign relations issues. In Canada, Arar called the decision "very disappointing [and] emotionally very hard to digest." Barbara Olshansky of the Center for Constitutional Rights said the law group would still try to proceed with the case. She said "How can this Administration argue before a Federal Court Judge that its practice of outsourcing for interrogation under torture constitutes a state secret? This is a dark day indeed."
Multiple relative cases described.
quote:
March 23, 2007
New U.S. Attorneys have worked on voting-related cases before appointment
March 22, 2007
"How U.S. attorneys were used to spread voter-fraud fears"
March 21, 2007
New Hampshire: Tobin's convication reversed, remanded for new trial
RNC Regional Director James Tobin's phone jamming conviction has been reversed.
March 15, 2007
It really is "voter fraud" at the heart of the Gonzalez 8
I'm disturbed at the increasing voter fraud tactics. I'm sure stuff has gone on before but it really seems like an effort coordinated from the top of the Republican Party down rather than merely local groups or individuals here or there getting carried away.
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 03/27/2007 13:14:20 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 20:11:00 [Permalink]
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Alberto Gonzales testified on January 18:quote:
Gonzales appears before an oversight hearing of the Democratic-controlled Senate Judiciary Committee. When Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-California, asks him about the U.S. attorneys' issue, Gonzales responds that the Justice Department evaluates the performances of the prosecutors and insists he "would never, ever" fire a U.S. attorney "for political reasons." He also tells the committee that those fired would be replaced by interim appointees whom the Senate would later confirm.
(My emphasis. For source of the above, see the "timeline" link on the page referenced just below.)
But now:quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Eight federal prosecutors were fired last year because they did not sufficiently support President Bush's priorities, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales' former chief of staff says in remarks prepared for delivery Thursday before the Senate Judiciary Committee.
"The distinction between 'political' and 'performance-related' reasons for removing a United States attorney is, in my view, largely artificial," Kyle Sampson, who quit during the furor over the firings, says in the remarks, obtained by The Associated Press.
"A U.S. attorney who is unsuccessful from a political perspective ... is unsuccessful," he adds. (Read the full statement - PDF)
Gonzales, the nation's top law enforcement officer, just got his ass caught lying under oath.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/28/2007 20:12:25 |
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"Loyal Bushies, etc."
