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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 04/13/2007 : 08:00:02 [Permalink]
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I tried to find Bill's source on the issue of china having to build more power plants to fill the need for more CF bulbs.
All I could find is a link to Rush Limbaugh's home page. I tried to sign in but I couldn't find a way, oddly. Perhaps I should have tried harder but hey, do I really want to be on his list of members?
I ran a search and came up with this on his site:
Rush Limbbaugh search
Note: I just tried the link and it sends you to Rush's homepage. If you are interested run a search for "China and Bulbs" on his site. You will get the following:
quote:
1 Global Warming Update
Incandescent bulbs are causing global warming, so we gotta go get these ...
fired electric power plants in China -- at a clip of one new plant every week. ...
I looked for a pretty long time and only the google link to Rush's site came up as a possible source.
Hey, what a surprise. Bill, is this paragon of truth and accuracy your source for this?
I don't think Bill pulled this power plant thing out of his ass. I think Rush pulled it out of his ass.
As I have been saying, it is my belief that Bill soaks up the kind of spin that guys like Limbaugh dishes out like a sponge.
And Rush really is a liar.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 04/13/2007 : 08:17:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
In quantities of six and up, you can get 60-watt equivalent CFs for $1.89 a piece.
Hell, at that price a person would have to be a fool not to change over, if only for the savings on the monthly electric bill... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 11:38:42 [Permalink]
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Federal and State regulations regarding disposal of CFLs. Most important:The federal rules generally exempt household waste from hazardous waste management requirements, but not every state defines “household waste” in the same way. It's important to find out what rules may apply in your state. Also:All major manufacturers of mercury lighting make products that pass the TCLP (see definition for Toxicity Characteristic Leaching Procedure in the glossary), meaning these lamps are not considered hazardous waste under federal rules. The TCLP test looks at the solubility of mercury in a simulated landfill environment. In Virginia, for example, CFLs which pass the TCLP test are eligible for landfill on a small-quantity basis. But then again, one's county or locality may have more stringent rules than the State or Federal guidelines. My county, for example, wants both fluorescent lamps and mercury products to be brought to one of two county "Household Hazardous Waste" (HHW) facilities.
Also, if you go to Earth 911 and enter your ZIP code, you can get a list of other HHW services - which may or may not be local to you.
But one thing Bill is missing is that the number-one emitter of mercury for households is coal-fired power plants. The amount of mercury emitted by coal power generation to light one incandescent bulb over its lifetime is more than the amount of mercury released to light a CFL bulb plus the mercury the CFL bulb contains. Of course, so long as your CFLs remain unbroken, the mercury in them won't actually be released into the environment, anyway.
So, the use of CFLs not only reduces greenhouse gas emissions, but also reduces mercury emissions. And because of their long lifetime, the use of CFLs probably reduces ladder-related injuries, too. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 13:04:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
quote:
Minor correction, a nit-pick really, but these bulbs sell at Wal-Mart for something like 2 for 4 bucks or so.
That's still 80% of 8 to 16 billion dollars that China stands to make on these bulbs, but regardless, it's a moot point anyhow as all the little light bulbs you want to change will not combat the effects of the Great Red Giant to the East.
"Every week to 10 days, another coal-fired power plant opens somewhere in China that is big enough to serve all the households in Dallas or San Diego."
- "Pollution From Chinese Coal Casts a Global Shadow"
"Eighty per cent of China's electricity comes from coal, and there are plans for 544 new coal-fired power stations to meet an insatiable demand for energy."
- "A coal-dependent future?"
I would be willing to bet that some of these new plants might be powering the factories that make compact light bulbs.
"Already, China uses more coal than the United States, the European Union and Japan combined. And it has increased coal consumption 14 percent in each of the past two years in the broadest industrialization ever."
- "Pollution From Chinese Coal Casts a Global Shadow"
Not to worry as the use of compacts might offset this.
It only gets worse as right behind China are the Indians.
"To make matters worse, India is right behind China in stepping up its construction of coal-fired power plants"
- "Pollution From Chinese Coal Casts a Global Shadow"
[Edited to fix links - Dave W.] |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 04/13/2007 13:10:33 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 13:13:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
That's still 80% of 8 to 16 billion dollars that China stands to make on these bulbs...[quote]Only if you disregard the shipping costs and other fees that won't go to China.[quote]...but regardless, it's a moot point anyhow as all the little light bulbs you want to change will not combat the effects of the Great Red Giant to the East.
Great, thanks for admitting China's manufacture of CFLs was just a red herring you tossed out as bait. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 14:01:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
My table saw broke down yesterday, so I had to go to Home Depot and get a new one last night. While there I checked the prices on CF bulbs. They were selling 4 packs of 14 watt bulbs, the equivalent to a 60 watt incandescent bulb for $14.98. That's about $3.75 a bulb.
We just bought some at Ikea for about $4. each. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 15:10:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Great, thanks for admitting China's manufacture of CFLs was just a red herring you tossed out as bait.
My point being, that while it may be done with a noble intent, using these little light bulbs is a superficial response to MMGW, when China is pumping out coal burning power plants at 1 every 10 days with 543 to go, which I am sure CFLs are manufactured at, but beside the point. Not to mention India running a close second. When you got China floating giant sulfuric clouds out over the Pacific before these 544 new power stations have even come on board then incandescent light bulbs are the least of our troubles. Your most damning enemy in the global war on MMGW is not the incandescent light bulb, but rather China and India, at this point.
In fact if one wants to truly battle MMGW then a boycott of all product produced in China is the only answer. Nothing will get the attention of the Chinese government like taking some of their money. We can start by refusing to buy any CFLs made in Chain until they end all new power plant constructions.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 04/13/2007 15:46:18 |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 16:21:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott...
My point being, that while it may be done with a noble intent, using these little light bulbs is a superficial response to MMGW, when China is pumping out coal burning power plants at 1 every 10 days with 543 to go, which I am sure CFLs are manufactured at, but beside the point.
So, Bill, tell us what makes you so sure they make light bulbs at power plants in China. 
Oh, and Bill, if you ever wonder why lots of people think you are a dyed-in-the-wool idiot, go re-read that idiotic comment you just made. In fact, for the humor value alone, it bears repeating!
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott...
My point being, that while it may be done with a noble intent, using these little light bulbs is a superficial response to MMGW, when China is pumping out coal burning power plants at 1 every 10 days with 543 to go, which I am sure CFLs are manufactured at, but beside the point.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 04/13/2007 : 16:44:10 [Permalink]
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Goddammit, Bill! Did ya have to go and fuck up the page, again!, with a three-mile-long link? Don't you realize what a pain in the ass that is? I usually don't bother to read them any more.
But help is at hand: TinyUrl quote:
Welcome to TinyURL!™
Are you sick of posting URLs in emails only to have it break when sent causing the recipient to have to cut and paste it back together? Then you've come to the right place. By entering in a URL in the text field below, we will create a tiny URL that will not break in email postings and never expires.
What it does: quote:
An example
Turn this URL:
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?ovi=1&mqma
p.x=300&mqmap.y=75&mapdata=%252bKZmeiIh6N%252bI
gpXRP3bylMaN0O4z8OOUkZWYe7NRH6ldDN96YFTIUmSH3Q6
OzE5XVqcuc5zb%252fY5wy1MZwTnT2pu%252bNMjOjsHjvN
lygTRMzqazPStrN%252f1YzA0oWEWLwkHdhVHeG9sG6cMrf
XNJKHY6fML4o6Nb0SeQm75ET9jAjKelrmqBCNta%252bsKC
9n8jslz%252fo188N4g3BvAJYuzx8J8r%252f1fPFWkPYg%
252bT9Su5KoQ9YpNSj%252bmo0h0aEK%252bofj3f6vCP
into this tinyURL:
http://tinyurl.com/6
Which one would you rather cut and paste into your browser? That's the power of TinyURL!
I give this to you, free of charge. FUCKING USE IT!!
Added sans edit, Bill is not the only one guilty of this..... 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 19:19:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
My point being, that while it may be done with a noble intent, using these little light bulbs is a superficial response to MMGW...
Even without China, it is a "superficial response," if all that anyone did was switch to CFLs. But it's just one small response out of many that anyone can do without making huge sacrifices - including boycotting Chinese and Indian products - and every little bit counts. You can take a fatalistic outlook on this if you like, Bill, but others will do what they can because they can despite the poor prognosis. Things aren't hopeless yet.
The other point being, of course, that because CFLs save money, time and the environment, there's no reason to not make the switch. Even the Chinese should make the switch, and save themselves, collectively, something like $12 billion a year in energy costs. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2007 : 20:35:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
quote:
My table saw broke down yesterday, so I had to go to Home Depot and get a new one last night. While there I checked the prices on CF bulbs. They were selling 4 packs of 14 watt bulbs, the equivalent to a 60 watt incandescent bulb for $14.98. That's about $3.75 a bulb.
We just bought some at Ikea for about $4. each.
Bartell's had a sale on a case of bulbs last year. The whole case was $20.00. There were 12 2-bulb packs. I now have enough CF bulbs to last until LED technology replaces them. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 04/13/2007 20:44:04 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2007 : 20:33:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Even without China, it is a "superficial response," if all that anyone did was switch to CFLs. But it's just one small response out of many that anyone can do without making huge sacrifices - including boycotting Chinese and Indian products - and every little bit counts. You can take a fatalistic outlook on this if you like, Bill, but others will do what they can because they can despite the poor prognosis. Things aren't hopeless yet.
The other point being, of course, that because CFLs save money, time and the environment, there's no reason to not make the switch. Even the Chinese should make the switch, and save themselves, collectively, something like $12 billion a year in energy costs.
As I have taken a few minutes to reflect it seems to me that we really have a few discussions here:
A. CFLs Bulbs. Too be honest, I did not realize that those bulbs had become so affordable. And you point out that the mercury content is not enough for major concern in regards to disposal, so after taking all of that into consideration, I will have to agree with you in the fact that there is no reason we should not be switching over. If for no other reason then for the common American to save on his/her electric bill each month. And I get annoyed changing all those other bulbs. They seem to be always burning out so quick. The longer life span would be a very attractive feature to me as well. So MMGW or not, I can now see a use and a place for the CFL.
B. Non-Industrialized nations becoming industrialized. Too be honest again, I have heard of the growing power consumption of the Chinese, but I have never really looked at the numbers straight in the face like I did when looking up these CFLs. One new coal fired power station every week to ten days, with 544 in the plans as of now! Is it just me or are those some sobering statistics? And I never realized that India was just on their coattails in their rising thirst for power. As technology becomes more and more affordable and proliferates many previously non-industrialized nations will be heading right down the same path as the China's and the India's of today. Now while I may remain skeptical of MMGW, I do not deny such things as air pollution, acid rain, mercury pollution etc…, nor do I take them lightly. With China pumping out that much $investment$ in their coal fired power plants how serious can they be about researching and pursuing alternative means? The more I think about this the prospects are chilling.
C. Now for even more of a dilemma. How can we here the US condemn, or try to deny, this advancement and all the luxuries that it brings (affordable power), to other nations when we have enjoyed affordable power, in relation to the rest of the world, and the luxuries that go with it virtually our whole lives?
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 04/14/2007 21:04:42 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2007 : 20:57:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
quote:
Which one would you rather cut and paste into your browser? That's the power of TinyURL!
I give this to you, free of charge.
Sorry and thanks. Here is my first tiny
http://tinyurl.com/yux3rf
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 04/14/2007 20:58:40 |
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Political hacks water down global warming report
