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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
 Posted - 04/21/2007 : 08:10:56
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Since the ban on so-called "partial birth" abortions has passed the Supreme Court, I've started to read up a bit on it.
This stuff is way more screwed up than I even imagined. The language of the law does not use the medical terms, and thus leaves it somewhat ambiguous as to exactly what procedures are being banned, regardless of the woman's health. In the arguments, Eve Gartner of Planned Parenthood told the Supreme Court that if the law had been written in scientific terms and made an exception for women's health, the ban would be reasonable. Instead this was about political propaganda. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9692283
quote:
But that attitude infuriates doctors like Nancy Stanwood, an assistant professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the University of Rochester in New York. Stanwood used to perform the disputed procedure, which is known medically as intact dilation and extraction, or D&X.
"The great concern," Stanwood says, "is that essentially they've taken out of our armamentarium a procedure that for some women is the safest and best course. [It]'s really profoundly disturbing and unprecedented, that they don't have a health exception."
I don't see how you can protect a woman's life while not protecting her health simutaneously: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/312183_abortionside19.htmlquote:
However, this ban applies to about 2 percent of the abortions performed in the United States each year, said Dr. Sarah Prager, an obstetrician/gynecologist and director of the Resident Family Plan Training Program at the University of Washington.
If that same percentage applies in Washington state, it would affect directly about 500 women a year.
Prager said there are circumstances where the banned procedure is the safest one for the woman, such as when she has infections, bleeding or heart problems.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Edited by - marfknox on 04/21/2007 08:11:31
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2007 : 08:41:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Marf:
I don't see how you can protect a woman's life while not protecting her health simutaneously
I saw that too. Brace yourself, this court has just begun. Long after Bush is gone, this court will be chipping away at Roe V Wade... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2007 : 00:21:53 [Permalink]
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| Just hope no liberal judges die or retire before 08. |
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Vegeta
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2007 : 04:41:54 [Permalink]
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| man, reading about abortion procedures is kinda disturbing. |
What are you looking at? Haven't you ever seen a pink shirt before?
"I was asked if I would do a similar sketch but focusing on the shortcomings of Islam rather than Christianity. I said, 'No, no I wouldn't. I may be an atheist but I'm not stupid.'" - Steward Lee |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2007 : 07:00:10 [Permalink]
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Vegeta wrote: quote:
man, reading about abortion procedures is kinda disturbing.
I find the whole concept of pregnancy disturbing when I dwell on it. A biology teacher in HS showed my class a video of a woman giving birth and I passed out for a minute and then had to be taken out of the room. Then you throw in the frequency of complications, miscarriages, and post-pardum depression (all things that I've watched friends and relatives endure) and pregnancy can easily become a terrifying prospect for women, especially those who do not want a child.
(Edited for clarity) |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 04/22/2007 07:09:47 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2007 : 07:17:47 [Permalink]
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"Early-term surgical abortion is a simple procedure. When performed before the 16th week by competent doctors — or, in some states, nurse practitioners, nurse midwives, and physician assistants — it is safer than childbirth." (Wikipedia article on abortion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion#Health_effects)
This is why it is tragic that poor women are more often coming in for late term abortions after having to spend extra time saving money for one. So much more effort needs to go into helping prevent unwanted pregnancies among the poor - meaning better education about and access to reliable birth control. More money also needs to go into helping poor women who choose to have a child (supplies, parent training and counseling, free day care) so that such a choice isn't a financial death sentence. And we need a national health care plan which includes access to early term abortions so poor women aren't scrambling for 3 or 4 months to get the money for a more dangerous and traumatic late term abortion or turning to less safe and illegal methods of abortion. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 04/22/2007 07:18:02 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2007 : 07:25:48 [Permalink]
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The more I think about this issue, the more upset I get about the fact that the whole issue in the USA has become a two-sided vicious debate over the morality of abortion. That doesn't help solve the real problems which are unwanted pregnancy and the extreme economic disadvantages of poor single mothers.
Religious moralists simplify the solution into: women should sexually abstain until marriage But this is sexist and also ignores the reality that most women are not going to abstain, that even married women can have unwanted pregnancies, and that at least some marriages will be dysfunctional and/or end in divorce. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2007 : 02:44:38 [Permalink]
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I can't believe you found a video of childbirth disturbing. I'm very happy to have seen many people born and die. I used to think how odd it was those events were sheltered from people in this culture.
Late term abortions are running into the younger and younger viability of premature babies. I think were saving a few as early as 24 weeks. It used to be 28 when I first started in nursing.
Regardless, there is simply no need for laws in this realm. But think about it, for about a million dollars you can keep a 24 week infant alive and for that same amount of money you could keep a lot of 1 year old children alive. And anti-abortion fanatics could care less about the 1 year olds.
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2007 : 03:08:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
I can't believe you found a video of childbirth disturbing.
I can. Even though my wife was "a machine" when our son was born, the woman in the next room was not quite as able to cope. Hearing someone wail "Get me out of here! I can't stand it!" at the top of a panicky voice IS disturbing. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2007 : 03:22:04 [Permalink]
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beskeptigal wrote: quote:
I can't believe you found a video of childbirth disturbing.
Well, you work in the medical profession and I'm a neurotic artist, so go figure. I actually have phobias of medical stuff in general. For me to go to a doctor for the most minor reason is a big deal. So I don't think it can be attributed to being sheltered from anything. More like a personal quirk.
But seriously, is it so hard to imagine that the image of a woman sweating and screaming in pain as an 8 pound being is passing through her vagina could be highly disturbing to some people? Everybody keeps telling me crap such as "But it's a totally natural thing" and "Women do it all the time, what's the big deal?" Of course the big deal is that women have also been getting hurt, sick, or died doing it. My great-aunt's daughter was rendered mentally handicapped from a traumatic birth (her head was too large for my relative's harrow hips and her brain was damaged in the passing.) A friend of mine's sister endured an ordeal so horrific I won't even repeat it, although it involves a last minute C-section with insufficient pain killers. One of my friends described how she went through a phase of forgiveness immediately after having her two children in psychological response to their births "hurting me". The nicest description of birth I've ever heard from any woman who has gone through it was "It was the worst pain I ever forgot." Yeah, sounds great! The means for reproduction that nature gave humanity wasn't at all attractive or ideal. We romanticize it at best and treat it casually at worst because we have no choice in the matter.
That's just my perspective on the matter. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 04/23/2007 03:24:00 |
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Ban on "Partial Birth" Abortions dismisses science
