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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
 Posted - 06/09/2007 : 09:00:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
A mechanic who uses fraudulent parts may end up getting someone killed while the same is not true for a psychic. |
Psychics can kill when they give faulty medical advice, which is why most of the smart ones shy away from that area. Still, it's an area on which many people want answers, so it can be hard to resist the cash.
I don't see how "Your cancer is cured" is qualitatively different or less irresponsible than "Your brakes are fixed" if neither are true.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 06/09/2007 09:01:40 |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 09:17:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky...
The thing different between psychics and most other frauds is the the client knows exactly whats going on. In most cases there is nothing hidden from them, nothing being kept secret. |
You don't think some of the people who patronize psychics actually believe the psychics have some kind of ability to see into the future of the client? You don't think many of the psychics themselves actually believe they have some kind of special gift of extra-sensory mental powers?
We had a psychic named Greta Alexander in my area. I met several people in my life who swore by her, completely believed she had some kind of mystical insight into their lives and futures. Even the police department would contact her from time to time to assist in locating lost children, missing bodies, etc.
Ricky from another post...
If we find a psychic who we can show is taking advantage of someone for their money, then yes, we should prosecute them to the full extent of the law. But again, there are psychics out there who truly believe in their ability and truly believe that they are helping people. And these psychics don't charge $700 a hour, but instead, a modest price for their service. |
You seem to infer that $700 might be too much to lose to a psychic. What is a fair amount to lose before you'd consider it wrong? And does the fact that the psychic actually believes he/she has some kind of magical powers really make a difference? Our insulting visitor, Barbara With, certainly seems to believe she has some kind of divine insight above and beyond that of normal mortal humans. Are you suggesting that makes it okay to charge money for her psychic services when another person doing exactly the same thing, but aware that they are full of shit, should be considered guilty of fraud?
I've known home repair people who actually believed they were providing reasonable service to their customers, when in reality they were doing slip-shod work. They were not, by industry standards anyway, actually doing the job for which they were being paid. Are there "industry standards" which might help determine when a psychic is defrauding someone and when they are actually applying magical powers to foresee the future of their clients?
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 10:38:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Shall the state now arrest phone sex operators? |
Global warming, public schools and now you think phone sex is a scam, too? What next? The Good Humor Man?
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Yes Dave, phone sex is a scam. The Good Humor Man is not a scam; as he does provide "good humor" with the delivery of ice creme which generally promotes "good humor" with the receipt of ice cream.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 11:01:43 [Permalink]
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I would equate to some extent phones sex and psychics. Both offer a service that requires belief in something that is most likely untrue. Some people choose to live in fantasy, as such I do not believe the government should punish those that offer fantasy to those who choose willingly to purchase fantasy.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 15:00:57 [Permalink]
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| You don't think some of the people who patronize psychics actually believe the psychics have some kind of ability to see into the future of the client? You don't think many of the psychics themselves actually believe they have some kind of special gift of extra-sensory mental powers? |
I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Yes, I think there are people of each type. When psychic readings are done for purely entertainment purposes (i.e. they don't believe they psychic has any real power), then there is no fraud. When the psychic knows that they have no power, then I would say that fraud has taken place. It's when both the client and the psychic believe in the supernatural power that I am unsure about.
| You seem to infer that $700 might be too much to lose to a psychic. What is a fair amount to lose before you'd consider it wrong? |
37 dollars and 29 cents per hour. Seriously, I'm not going to draw a line at a specific amount, but $700 an hour is too much. That should be obvious.
| And does the fact that the psychic actually believes he/she has some kind of magical powers really make a difference? |
I think it does, intent certainly has an influence on many other legal matters, the question is does it make enough of a difference. This I am unsure on.
| Are you suggesting that makes it okay to charge money for her psychic services when another person doing exactly the same thing, but aware that they are full of shit, should be considered guilty of fraud? |
Again, I haven't decided either way. But I do think there is a fairly large difference between knowingly committing fraud, and someone unknowingly committing fraud.
Psychics can kill when they give faulty medical advice, which is why most of the smart ones shy away from that area. Still, it's an area on which many people want answers, so it can be hard to resist the cash.
I don't see how "Your cancer is cured" is qualitatively different or less irresponsible than "Your brakes are fixed" if neither are true.
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Then the same must apply to all non-evidence based medicine, and all should be outlawed as fraudulent. |
Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 17:36:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Yes Dave, phone sex is a scam. |
How so? Where is the fraud?| The Good Humor Man is not a scam; as he does provide "good humor" with the delivery of ice creme which generally promotes "good humor" with the receipt of ice cream. |
The Good Humor Man delivers tooth decay, obesity and could kill diabetic children. He sells twenty-five cents of ingredients and packaging for two bucks. Not to mention that the bastard comes to my neighborhood right as the kids get off the bus, leading to much poor humor as parents hear the inevitable "mom, gimme some money!" |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 21:14:11 [Permalink]
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Dave now this is hilarious:
"The Good Humor Man delivers tooth decay, obesity and could kill diabetic children. He sells twenty-five cents of ingredients and packaging for two bucks. Not to mention that the bastard comes to my neighborhood right as the kids get off the bus, leading to much poor humor as parents hear the inevitable "mom, gimme some money!"
I did laugh out loud!!!
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 21:16:51 [Permalink]
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Dave asked "How so? Where is the fraud?" concerning phone sex.
Sorry to disappoint, but false advertising.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 22:13:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Sorry to disappoint, but false advertising. |
How so? What is the promise that's never delivered? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 22:35:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Sorry to disappoint, but false advertising. |
How so? What is the promise that's never delivered?
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Dave, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that ladies read these posts.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2007 : 22:56:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Dave, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that ladies read these posts. |
Ah, we can add "sexism" to your list of charming behaviors, Jerome. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 06/10/2007 : 12:46:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Sorry to disappoint, but false advertising. |
How so? What is the promise that's never delivered?
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Dave, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that ladies read these posts.
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Oh please... I'm sure that if their tender sensibilities are that easily upset, they'd have fled for the hills an hour after registering. These fora are not for the easily offended, as I'm sure you've long since figured out.
There is no false advertising in phone sex, although the prices seem a little stiff for the service rendered. The guy calls up knowing exactly what he's going to get; some girl (he hopes) answers and carols sweet, humid somethings into his sweaty ear, and soon the conversation comes to a sticky end to the satisfaction of both parties. All fair and above board.
Unless, of course, the phone sex place has credit card number & ID theft as a sideline, which is a whole 'nother topic. Caveat emptor, eh?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 20:04:20 [Permalink]
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Jerome wrote: | Yes Dave, phone sex is a scam. |
I repeat Dave's question, what is promised that is not delivered?
| Dave, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that ladies read these posts. |
Oh really?
Cock, mother fucker, cunt, donkey punch, hot carl, feltching, piss, shit, ass, Michael Jackson.
There. Am I sufficiently crass enough to be able to discuss this subject now, despite my having a vagina and pair of ovaries?
Advertisements for phone sex promise phone sex. People who call and pay for the services get phone sex. There is no fraud, no scam. It is a fantasy, and any rational person knows that a fantasy is pretend. Next you're gonna tell us that extreme rollar coasters are a scam 'cause nobody actually ever dies while riding them, but the advertisements communicate the fantasy of extreme danger. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 20:12:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
Jerome wrote: | Yes Dave, phone sex is a scam. |
I repeat Dave's question, what is promised that is not delivered?
| Dave, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that ladies read these posts. |
Oh really?
Cock, mother fucker, cunt, donkey punch, hot carl, feltching, piss, shit, ass, Michael Jackson.
There. Am I sufficiently crass enough to be able to discuss this subject now, despite my having a vagina and pair of ovaries?
Advertisements for phone sex promise phone sex. People who call and pay for the services get phone sex. There is no fraud, no scam. It is a fantasy, and any rational person knows that a fantasy is pretend. Next you're gonna tell us that extreme rollar coasters are a scam 'cause nobody actually ever dies while riding them, but the advertisements communicate the fantasy of extreme danger.
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The next sound coming out of Jerome will be that of changing the subject yet again. I'm psychic.
And for the record, if I'm paying someone $37.50 per hour for a personal service I had better damn well be getting some primo oral sex.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Philly shuts down psychics who profit!
