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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 05/16/2007 : 18:41:58 [Permalink]
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Mabuse---"You believe... So you have no proof that it is so?"
Yes, no proof. I believe based on the evidence provided by science.
Maybe the term I should have used should have been "likely".
Do not the conclusions in the ipcc report refer to the degrees of likelihood?
To all: I will attempt to discuss science in this thread, and politics in the Debunked-"world wide scientific consensus" thread.
This should prevent any confusion about the current talk.
I found some "inside info" from an author of the ipcc report.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2007 : 18:49:29 [Permalink]
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filthy---This would be more fun for you if you try to explain why historically co2 increases follow temperature increases.
Based on this info we should expect the co2 to increase as the temperature increases, not the reverse.
This is the major foundation of the current theory of mmgw.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2007 : 18:53:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
filthy---This would be more fun for you if you try to explain why historically co2 increases follow temperature increases.
Based on this info we should expect the co2 to increase as the temperature increases, not the reverse.
This is the major foundation of the current theory of mmgw. |
But JdG, if you ignore the explanations (as I already put forward), then there's no point in continuing the discussion!! Accept reality. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2007 : 19:11:36 [Permalink]
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Cuneiformist---The explanation from "Ice Core Records of Atmospheric CO2 Around the Last Three Glacial Terminations," Science, 283 Issue 5408 (March 12, 1999) that you put forward confirmed my assertions.
The article confirms that co2 follows temp increase, and goes on to explain why temp increases cause co2 to rise.
So can you explain why based on this past science the future will be the reverse?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 04:21:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
filthy---This would be more fun for you if you try to explain why historically co2 increases follow temperature increases.
Based on this info we should expect the co2 to increase as the temperature increases, not the reverse.
This is the major foundation of the current theory of mmgw.
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This makes no sense.
Kindly provide a link explaining it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 04:26:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cuneiformist---The explanation from "Ice Core Records of Atmospheric CO2 Around the Last Three Glacial Terminations," Science, 283 Issue 5408 (March 12, 1999) that you put forward confirmed my assertions.
The article confirms that co2 follows temp increase, and goes on to explain why temp increases cause co2 to rise.
So can you explain why based on this past science the future will be the reverse? |
Again, you obviously lack reading comprehension skills. First off, it pointed out that the temperature readings in terms of date are unreliable to a point where it's hard to say with any confidence that those spikes come before CO2 spikes.
Second, they note that it is in agreement with theory that due to "the net decline of the terrestrial biosphere during the glaciation and possibly by respiration of organic carbon deposited on increasingly exposed shelf areas," CO2 will continue to rise for a short period after the temperature spike.
So the observation about the CO2 spikes are a) probably not as great as the charts you cite show; and b) can be explained through normal phenomena and therefore are invalid in trying to argue the idea that you're trying to argue.
In other words, if you think this invalidates arguments for man-made global warming, you're wrong. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 05/17/2007 : 04:31:22 [Permalink]
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Wait, I think I've figgered it out.
JEROME, even you should know that during the Ice Ages we were not a factor at all. We scarcly became a factor until well into the Industrial Revolution.
Atmospheric CO/2 levels will rise during warmer periods simply because the oceans are warmer and capable of absorbing less gas. And that is also why spring is the best time to go fishing.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 04:47:21 [Permalink]
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But I am a very helpful fellow. Here is something that might render a bit of explanation: Oceans
Oceans are natural CO2 sinks, and represent the largest active carbon sink on Earth. This role as a sink for CO2 is driven by two processes, the solubility pump and the biological pump.[2] The former is primarily a function of differential CO2 solubility in seawater and the thermohaline circulation, while the latter is the sum of a series of biological processes that transport carbon (in organic and inorganic forms) from the surface euphotic zone to the ocean's interior. A small fraction of the organic carbon transported by the biological pump to the seafloor is buried in anoxic conditions under sediments and ultimately forms fossil fuels such as oil and natural gas.
At the present time, approximately one third[3] of anthropogenic emissions are estimated to be entering the ocean. The solubility pump is the primary mechanism driving this, with the biological pump playing a negligible role. This stems from the limitation of the biological pump by ambient light and nutrients required by the phytoplankton that ultimately drive it. Total inorganic carbon is not believed to limit primary production in the oceans, so its increasing availability in the ocean does not directly affect production (the situation on land is different, since enhanced atmospheric levels of CO2 essentially "fertilize" land plant growth). However, ocean acidification by invading anthropogenic CO2 may affect the biological pump by negatively impacting calcifying organisms such as coccolithophores, foraminiferans and pteropods. Climate change may also affect the biological pump in the future by warming and stratifying the surface ocean, thus reducing the supply of limiting nutrients to surface waters. Although the buffering capacity of sea water is keeping the pH nearly constant at present, eventually pH will drop. At this point, the dissruption of life in the sea may turn it into a carbon source rather than a carbon sink. The characteristic of buffered systems is to hold the pH reasonably constant over a large introduction of acid and then drop suddenly with a small additional amount.
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A tad wordier than my offering, but there it is. I suggest that you read the entire article.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 05:03:54 [Permalink]
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Sometimme back, our friend JEROME came up with a statement to the effect of the Anarctic ice pack being on the increase. Well, whilse getting my morning news, and getting my blood pressure on the increase, I found this: Massive ice melt observed in Antarctica dpa German Press Agency
Published: Wednesday May 16, 2007
Washington- An area as large as the US state of California
melted due to warmer temperatures in western Antarctica a satellite
from the US space agency showed, according to a NASA analysis of the
largest melt in recent decades.
The data collected by the NASA satellite, QuickScat, between July
1999 and July 2005 captured the largest melting in 30 years during
January 2005, scientists said late Tuesday.
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I'm sure that this can be verfied through NASA, but at the moment, I'm too lazy to do it. Wouldn't matter anyway. NASA is obviously deeply involved in the Gore conspiricy. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 06:33:31 [Permalink]
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Cuneiformist---
The data pattern is unreliable but here is the reason we see the pattern.
I can not understand your logic.
Why would a presentation of reason for an action be presented for an action that is not occurring? |
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 06:38:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
filthy---This would be more fun for you if you try to explain why historically co2 increases follow temperature increases.
Based on this info we should expect the co2 to increase as the temperature increases, not the reverse.
This is the major foundation of the current theory of mmgw.
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This makes no sense.
Kindly provide a link explaining it.
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In simple terms: man causes co2 production.
co2 production causes temperature to rise.
Therefore man causes warming.
If co2 increases follow (not cause) temperature increases than the stated logic of mmgw is false.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 06:48:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Sometimme back, our friend JEROME came up with a statement to the effect of the Anarctic ice pack being on the increase. Well, whilse getting my morning news, and getting my blood pressure on the increase, I found this: Massive ice melt observed in Antarctica dpa German Press Agency
Published: Wednesday May 16, 2007
Washington- An area as large as the US state of California
melted due to warmer temperatures in western Antarctica a satellite
from the US space agency showed, according to a NASA analysis of the
largest melt in recent decades.
The data collected by the NASA satellite, QuickScat, between July
1999 and July 2005 captured the largest melting in 30 years during
January 2005, scientists said late Tuesday.
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I'm sure that this can be verfied through NASA, but at the moment, I'm too lazy to do it. Wouldn't matter anyway. NASA is obviously deeply involved in the Gore conspiricy.
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No need to verify as I trust the data.
The point was as a whole the antarctic is increasing in ice.
Ice constantly melts and forms, this data would not invalidate the data showing that as a whole the ice in the antarctic is growing.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 06:51:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
If co2 increases follow (not cause) temperature increases than the stated logic of mmgw is false. |
If, and only if, CO2 is the only thing responsible for rising temperatures, which you know isn't true. For the natural cycle, other factors were heating up the atmosphere, which caused ocean temps to rise after a lag, which caused the release of CO2. For some reason, you're not paying any attention to the actual "stated logic" of climate change theory, and instead you're substituting your own caricature of it (in other words, you're creating strawmen). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 07:36:22 [Permalink]
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Dave---What would other man made causes for temp increases be?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2007 : 07:41:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by filthy
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
filthy---This would be more fun for you if you try to explain why historically co2 increases follow temperature increases.
Based on this info we should expect the co2 to increase as the temperature increases, not the reverse.
This is the major foundation of the current theory of mmgw.
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This makes no sense.
Kindly provide a link explaining it.
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In simple terms: man causes co2 production.
co2 production causes temperature to rise.
Therefore man causes warming.
If co2 increases follow (not cause) temperature increases than the stated logic of mmgw is false.
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That ain't the asked-for link, therefore, it is tripe.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 05/17/2007 07:42:47 |
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Is Global Warming a Scam (part 2)
Topic Locked
