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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 05/22/2007 : 02:58:43 [Permalink]
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"They never suspect the butterfly." -- Bart Simpson
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 05/22/2007 03:03:39 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 05/22/2007 : 03:37:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
This is the funniest part of Gore testimony before the senate:
Gore: I think the first step should be a cap-and-trade system that starts with a freeze.
Occidental's coal interests were represented for many years by attorney and former U.S. Senator Albert Gore, Sr., among others. Gore, who had a long-time close friendship with Hammer, became the head of its subsidiary Island Creek Coal Company upon his election loss in the Senate. Much of Oxy's coal and phosphate production was from Tennessee, the state Gore represented in the Senate, and Gore owned shares of stock in the company.
Big oil Al Gore is proposing caps---leading to shortages---leading to price increases.
Why do many of these Big Oil men continue to propose shortages? |
First off, Al Gore-- the former Vice President, is Al Gore Jr.
Second-- and this is no longer a surprise-- you again have no idea what you're talking about. The cap-and-trade Gore was talking about refers to capping emissions; not supplies of coal or oil. No one is suggesting the we cap oil or coal. Again: know what you're talking about. |
| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 05/22/2007 03:38:39 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2007 : 19:09:54 [Permalink]
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Cuneiformist---"The cap-and-trade Gore was talking about refers to capping emissions"
The emissions come from the use. Capping emissions will necessitate lower use and or cause the use of more expensive energy; in any case the price of oil will rise.
"that starts with a freeze"
How would one freeze emissions without curtailing use or using more expensive energy?
This goes back to what I was saying in the school posts.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2007 : 19:16:49 [Permalink]
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Cap and Trade allows those with capitol to control the market and stifle competitors, thus also raising the cost of energy.
This is also a tax (raising the cost) which goes to the point of my op.
Thanks for again helping to prove my point.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2007 : 19:31:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cuneiformist---"The cap-and-trade Gore was talking about refers to capping emissions"
The emissions come from the use. Capping emissions will necessitate lower use and or cause the use of more expensive energy; in any case the price of oil will rise.
"that starts with a freeze"
How would one freeze emissions without curtailing use or using more expensive energy?
This goes back to what I was saying in the school posts. |
Jesus H Christ. How can you be so dumb? Did you even read the link I provided? It does the exact opposite of what you suggest. Did you even read the link I provided? You suggested that caps "stifle competitors" but in fact, it does the opposite. You have no idea what you're talking about. Do some research before launching into your stupid claims. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2007 : 19:33:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cap and Trade allows those with capitol to control the market and stifle competitors, thus also raising the cost of energy.
This is also a tax (raising the cost) which goes to the point of my op.
Thanks for again helping to prove my point. |
No. NO NO NO NO NO. You have no idea what you're talking about. Your inability to understand how a cap-and-trade system would work proves that your "points" are as dumb as you are. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2007 : 19:44:08 [Permalink]
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Cuneiformist--- I read the majority of links provided including your last one.
Please, a rebuttal no name calling; a rebuttal will further both our understanding of the topic.
How would one freeze emissions without curtailing use or using more expensive energy?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2007 : 21:45:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cuneiformist--- I read the majority of links provided including your last one.
Please, a rebuttal no name calling; a rebuttal will further both our understanding of the topic.
How would one freeze emissions without curtailing use or using more expensive energy? |
How about improving efficiency of technology based on presently available fuels?
Do you need a pair of pliers for that foot?
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John's just this guy, you know. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2007 : 21:52:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
How would one freeze emissions without curtailing use or using more expensive energy? |
How could one freeze emissions from fossil fuel use and increase demand for fossil fuels (increase use) at the same time, JEROME? You're claiming that a freeze is the same as an increase.| This goes back to what I was saying in the school posts. |
Yes, you're showing everyone that you need more schooling to understand the basic issues in both threads. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2007 : 21:57:07 [Permalink]
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JohnOAS--- Gores plan "starts with a freeze"
Starting with a freeze would not suddenly create "efficiency".
I think Gore knows this fact.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2007 : 22:03:10 [Permalink]
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Dave---"How could one freeze emissions from fossil fuel use and increase demand for fossil fuels (increase use) at the same time, JEROME?"
Fossil fuels are still going to be cheaper in the short run, thus until the price increase from the restrictions in use overcome the price differential to other forms of energy they will continue to be desired.
Simple example:
If oil cost = x
If solar cost = x+2
Than if oil due to restriction of use costs x+1 it is still desired and the price increased.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2007 : 22:14:22 [Permalink]
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Lets see...
You restrict the use of oil, thus lowering the demand for oil, and that somehow causes the price of oil to increase...
Put the crackpipe down Jerome.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2007 : 22:18:55 [Permalink]
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Oh, man, he's up to the same confounded nonthinking illogic as before. Sigh.
Jerome, what you are saying is like a kid thinking that by not buying lollipops, he'll cut sugar production and force up the price of that commodity. Try thinking, please!
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2007 : 22:45:23 [Permalink]
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Dude---"You restrict the use of oil, thus lowering the demand for oil"
Restricing the use does not reduce demand.
Drugs are restricted is demand down?
Booze was restricted was demand down?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2007 : 22:50:27 [Permalink]
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HalfMooner---"what you are saying is like a kid thinking that by not buying lollipops, he'll cut sugar production and force up the price of that commodity"
No, what is being proposed is the reduction of sugar products by the government; demand not changing, the price will increase because?
There is less sugar on the market!
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Is Global Warming a Scam (part 2)
Topic Locked
