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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 05/18/2007 : 23:18:04 [Permalink]
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filthy said:
Was Ozwald that good? I don't know, nor, it seems, does anyone else.
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He went through marine basic training. That involves marksmanship training.
At the range his shots were taken from it is pretty easy to aim, especially with a scope. I've never fired the specific rifle he used, but it shouldn't be substantially different from other bolt action rifles of similar caliber.
The cartridge for his rifle was a 6.5x52mm, (.268caliber) and has a muzzle velocity of 2300fps. I don't know the exact bullet weight, but the Remington .260cal is usually a 140grain round.
So these small bullets, fired at high velocity, make for an accurate cartridge.
If he kept his rifle in good repair it would easily have been capable of delivering the accuracy and speed it did at the distance he was from JFK.
A minimally trained marksman should be able to fire aimed shots, with a scoped bolt-action rifle, with 2 to 3 seconds delay between shots, easily. More so for someone with marine training.
From personal experience, I can tell you that a trained marksman can deliver aimed shots under 100 yards via a bolt-action rifle with a scope in about 1-2 seconds each. You aren't going to have a 1/2moa shot group, but you can hit the target in the kill zone.
All the bullet fragments have been shown to be consistent with the 6.5mm ammo fired by LHO's rifle. (the contention, so widely misstated, of this new report is only concerning the number of bullets that the fragments could have come from)
Now, if we could just get people to apply Occam's Razor...
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2007 : 23:38:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
filthy said:
Was Ozwald that good? I don't know, nor, it seems, does anyone else.
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He went through marine basic training. That involves marksmanship training.
At the range his shots were taken from it is pretty easy to aim, especially with a scope. I've never fired the specific rifle he used, but it shouldn't be substantially different from other bolt action rifles of similar caliber.
The cartridge for his rifle was a 6.5x52mm, (.268caliber) and has a muzzle velocity of 2300fps. I don't know the exact bullet weight, but the Remington .260cal is usually a 140grain round.
So these small bullets, fired at high velocity, make for an accurate cartridge.
If he kept his rifle in good repair it would easily have been capable of delivering the accuracy and speed it did at the distance he was from JFK.
A minimally trained marksman should be able to fire aimed shots, with a scoped bolt-action rifle, with 2 to 3 seconds delay between shots, easily. More so for someone with marine training.
From personal experience, I can tell you that a trained marksman can deliver aimed shots under 100 yards via a bolt-action rifle with a scope in about 1-2 seconds each. You aren't going to have a 1/2moa shot group, but you can hit the target in the kill zone.
All the bullet fragments have been shown to be consistent with the 6.5mm ammo fired by LHO's rifle. (the contention, so widely misstated, of this new report is only concerning the number of bullets that the fragments could have come from)
Now, if we could just get people to apply Occam's Razor...
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I see -- I'd forgotten his military training. Ozwald probably trained with the M1 Garand and concievably the '03-A3 Springfield, pretty much as I did in the mid '50s. Those things were not for the timid, recoil-wise -- not everybody could shoot them.
Still, there is no excuse for missing that first shot. I guess I could put it down to nerves; shooting presidents, or even just at them, is not a casual, every day sort of activity.
I seem to recall reading that the bullet was heavier, 160 grains or so, although the lighter one would surely be easier to deal with.
If I were doing it, I would not have chosen such a piece, but "ya run what ya brung and shoot what ya got."
I'm currently working on a wildcat pistol cartridge. I'll write it up when it's ready (if ever  ).
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 03:26:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cuneiformist---
Billy Nolan Lovelady died in January, 1979, during the House Select Committee on Assassinations hearings.
(hum this part)
DUN DUN DUNNNN
"Unfortunately, Lovelady was not able to confirm this as he died just before the publication of the HSCA report. He died of a heart-attack aged 42 in January, 1979."
www.angelfire.com/blog2/jfk/teach.htm
Heart attack, at 42, during the hearings?
Seems like every loose end becomes frayed and never tied up. |
This isn't a loose end, though. It's a delusional fantasy. Heart attacks before age 50 in men certainly sound unusual, but genetic predisposition demonstrates that it is not uncommon.
Other than that, though, you've got nothing. Unfortunately for you, however, you hung your JFK-conspiracy hat on this lame photo. Because you desperately want to believe in some conspiracy, you now are forced to stand by your evidence even when the defense becomes a tautology: a conspiracy is shown by this photo, but the conspiracy also murdered the witness who could validate the claim. Therefore, the conspiracy is true.
It's pathetic. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 09:32:21 [Permalink]
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Cuneiformist---I am not saying its not possible to have a heart attack at 42.
I also rescind: statement of proof based on the photo. I believe the LIFE photo is in doubt.
I also believe the Lovelady story is so full of holes that its not proof he is in the LIFE photo.
If Lovelady could be interviewed after the hearings on conspiracy maybe he could explain the inconsistence facts.
Alas; he died during the hearings, thus this leaves much doubt as to who is in the photo.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 10:56:00 [Permalink]
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filthy said:
I seem to recall reading that the bullet was heavier, 160 grains or so, although the lighter one would surely be easier to deal with.
If I were doing it, I would not have chosen such a piece, but "ya run what ya brung and shoot what ya got."
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The 6.5mm rounds used today range from 120 to 165 grains. Looked around for some 6.5mm Carcano ammo, and they seem to be 156grain rounds.
As for the rifle, it was a 30 year old mil surplus piece he bought in Chicago. He probably picked it up for a few dollars. Like the Russian SKS, most mil-spec rifles were built with the idea of being able to fire about a million rounds before needing to be replaced.
6.5mm cartridges offer a fairly flat ballistic profile, many of the modern 6.5mm rifles drop less than an inch at 200 yards, and pack enough punch to drop a caribou.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 13:27:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cuneiformist---I am not saying its not possible to have a heart attack at 42. |
Obviously, though, the implication was that his having a heart attack at his age was so unusual that there had to be nefarious forces at work to keep him quiet.
I also rescind: statement of proof based on the photo. I believe the LIFE photo is in doubt.
I also believe the Lovelady story is so full of holes that its not proof he is in the LIFE photo.
If Lovelady could be interviewed after the hearings on conspiracy maybe he could explain the inconsistence facts.
Alas; he died during the hearings, thus this leaves much doubt as to who is in the photo. |
Who cares?! It obviously wasn't Oswald, and so the point is moot. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 18:59:59 [Permalink]
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Not to beat a dead horse about the mysterious death of Mr Lovelady but he had already testified under oath.Mr. BALL - I have got a picture here, Commission Exhibit 369. Are you on that picture?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Take a pen or pencil and mark an arrow where you are.
Mr. LOVELADY - Where I thought the shots are?
Mr. BALL - No; you in the picture.
Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, here (indicating).
Mr. BALL - Draw an arrow down to that; do it in the dark. You got an arrow in the dark and one in the white pointing toward you. Where were you when the picture was taken?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right there at the entrance of the building standing on the the step, would be here (indicating).
Mr. BALL - You were standing on which step?
Mr. LOVELADY - It would be your top level.
Mr. BALL - The top step you were standing there?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right.
Mr. BALL - Now, when Gloria came up you were standing near Mr. Shelley?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yeah.
Mr. BALL - When Gloria came up and said the President had been shot, Gloria Calvary, what did you do? |
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You conspiricy guys should be all over this.
