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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 06/13/2007 : 07:48:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
The evidence is there for all to see. The fact that when evidence is presented which conflicts with your world view is discounted, proves beyond any doubt that you are not skeptical. |
That's rich coming from you! Your arguments have routinely been destroyed and yet you continue to argue for ludicrous conspiracies and sinister plots.
As for the rest, even if the Federal Reserve is somehow responsible for greater inflation (and I am skeptical-- even if it is a cause, it is likely not the only cause), that hardly points to any great conspiracy. Indeed, what is the conspiracy? That Wilson somehow wanted inflation? What for? What is the goal of this nefarious plot?
Did the Federal Reserve worsen the Depression? I have no idea. I'm not an economic historian (at least, not of 20th century America). But you work under the assumption that governmental bodies are infinitely wise and never make mistakes. Assuming that you're right and that the Depression was made worse be Fed policies, which is more likely:
(a) Nefarious elite businessmen conspired in secret to implement policies that would make the Depression worse for reasons known only to them (and you); or
(b) That some well-meaning bureaucrats, economists, and policy-makers tried to stave off its effects, but due to poor implementation, or a lack of understanding for the Depression's cause, failed in their efforts to do so
If you think (a), then you'll have to do more than cite a fraudulent Wilson quote and throw out numbers out of context to demonstrate it to be the case. That after so many pages you've been unable to come up with any coherent argument and yet you still maintain a conspiracy is laughable and is a wonderful example of how, more than anyone else, it is you who is not skeptical |
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JEROME DA GNOME
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2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 08:42:40 [Permalink]
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Yes, the plot was not broadcast(secret) until the signing of the declaration.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 08:46:14 [Permalink]
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Cune said "if the Federal Reserve is somehow responsible for greater inflation (and I am skeptical"
They set the interest rates for the entire economy! How can one be so ignorant of facts and be so sure of conclusions?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 08:52:03 [Permalink]
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Only a precursory look at history shows mans control of man with the use of religion and government.
But, of course, today is different because I believe I live in a special time. The facts of history have nothing to do with today. In fact, human habits suddenly changed with the turn of the last century.
Do you see how silly this sounds.
Man has always attempted to control man using government. Why would today be different?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 09:05:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Yes, the plot was not broadcast(secret) until the signing of the declaration. |
So you expect the Continental Congress to have been broadcast on C-Span? Or perhaps updates should have been broadcast on the local NPR stations? Maybe England should have sent its BBC correspondent (flying on British Airways, no less) to report on the proceedings, too?
I'll edit this to add that while the proceedings were obviously secret (it doesn't make sense to tell the British that you're meeting to complain about how you don't think you've being treated fairly), I don't think that this falls under the definition of "conspiracy theory" in the conventional sense of the term. The conventional definition-- yes, a pejorative term-- simply doesn't apply to the Revolution. For one thing, it's not a theory; the Revolution did happen because the Colonies weren't please with how they were being treated. For another thing, there never was an alternate explanation for the Revolution. Conspiracy theories are alternate explanations-- usually an alternative to a generally accepted explanation, e.g. the Kennedy Assassination-- to an event.
Obviously people have conspired to do things. I don't doubt that and if that's your only claim than I agree with you. Did certain Colonial leaders conspire? I would accept that. But to consider this an example of a conspiracy theory proven correct is wrong. |
| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 06/13/2007 09:43:34 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 09:10:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cune said "if the Federal Reserve is somehow responsible for greater inflation (and I am skeptical"
They set the interest rates for the entire economy! How can one be so ignorant of facts and be so sure of conclusions? |
So when I hear reports about inflation, and some expert suggests that a small rise in inflation is caused by rising oil prices am I wrong? Am I just ignorant of facts? |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 09:12:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Only a precursory look at history shows mans control of man with the use of religion and government.
But, of course, today is different because I believe I live in a special time. The facts of history have nothing to do with today. In fact, human habits suddenly changed with the turn of the last century.
Do you see how silly this sounds.
Man has always attempted to control man using government. Why would today be different? |
It may or may not sound silly, but since I never said or claimed such a thing, it is irrelevant to the discussion. I assume that since you cannot directly answer my questions that this is just another dodge in an attempt to steer the conversation away from the fact that you have no coherent theory of this conspiracy. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 19:46:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cune said "if the Federal Reserve is somehow responsible for greater inflation (and I am skeptical"
They set the interest rates for the entire economy! How can one be so ignorant of facts and be so sure of conclusions? |
So when I hear reports about inflation, and some expert suggests that a small rise in inflation is caused by rising oil prices am I wrong? Am I just ignorant of facts?
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Minor blips in the context of 200 years of data.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 19:53:08 [Permalink]
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The amount of money in supply changes the value of money. The dollar has no backing outside of the credit of the American peoples future labor. The amount of money is increased by the making of loans. The making of loans is facilitated by the manipulation of interest rates. The Fed controls the creation of money, thus controls inflation.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2007 : 08:09:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Cune said "if the Federal Reserve is somehow responsible for greater inflation (and I am skeptical"
They set the interest rates for the entire economy! How can one be so ignorant of facts and be so sure of conclusions? |
So when I hear reports about inflation, and some expert suggests that a small rise in inflation is caused by rising oil prices am I wrong? Am I just ignorant of facts?
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Minor blips in the context of 200 years of data. |
You missed the point entirely. Did you even read the link? |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2007 : 08:15:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
The amount of money in supply changes the value of money. The dollar has no backing outside of the credit of the American peoples future labor. The amount of money is increased by the making of loans. The making of loans is facilitated by the manipulation of interest rates. The Fed controls the creation of money, thus controls inflation. |
Yes, obviously the amount of currency in circulation has an effect on inflation. I'm not sure what you mean by money being increased by loans. But either way, yes, the Fed controls the interest rates. There are, as I noted, other factors which lead to inflation or deflation.
I've already asked without answer, but I'll ask again just to demonstrate that I'm correct in my assertion that you have no real argument besides nebulous suggestions that some small group of people control things, and that they do so for nefarious reasons. But what, exactly, is the conspiracy theory that you are arguing for? |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2007 : 08:40:41 [Permalink]
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Yez, Cune I did read the link and I am aware of other factors contributing to inflation. This fact has little to do with the long term inflation caused by the Fed.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2007 : 08:53:28 [Permalink]
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Money is created by the issuing of loans. Banks can legally loan a multiple of their deposits. Banks gain deposits from the loans issued by other banks.
Inflation has a natural cycle, ups , and downs. Looking at the 100 years prior to the creation of the Fed the data shows a balance over time. Looking at the data after the Fed the data shows a 3.33% inflation rate yearly average.
The control and manipulation of the money supply and thus inflation allows those in the know to garner others labor without their knowledge.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2007 : 09:03:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Yez, Cune I did read the link and I am aware of other factors contributing to inflation. This fact has little to do with the long term inflation caused by the Fed. |
I guess we'll have to find some real economists to give an informed position, because that's not the impression I get. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2007 : 09:09:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Money is created by the issuing of loans. Banks can legally loan a multiple of their deposits. Banks gain deposits from the loans issued by other banks.
Inflation has a natural cycle, ups , and downs. Looking at the 100 years prior to the creation of the Fed the data shows a balance over time. Looking at the data after the Fed the data shows a 3.33% inflation rate yearly average.
The control and manipulation of the money supply and thus inflation allows those in the know to garner others labor without their knowledge. |
None of this makes sense, and still doesn't get to the crux of your argument (surprise!). You do a poor job at explaining things (I admittedly have poor reading comprehension skills, so things have to be spelled out in a concise and lucid way for me to understand; your writing is too concise and hardly lucid), and still haven't answered basic questions. |
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Federal Reserve Act in 1913
