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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 06/09/2007 : 22:53:57
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I saw a story on CNN and some other news outlets about the Sunnis fighting alongside the US to oust Al Qaeda in Iraq and I was intrigued. Some masked men talked about how they hated Al Qaeda and were going to help distroy them. One of their number read a statement. All of them were wearing masks.
We were never shown what they had actually done. They dug up a body near a mosque and and were surprised that the victim hadn't been beheaded but the fact that the corpse was handcuffed indicated Al Qaeda was responsible. That was when I started wondering whether this entire story was fabricated by the US military. How do handcuffs indicate a person was killed by Al Qaeda? Handcuffs aren;t that hard to come by.
There were just a few of them, members of some obscure militia. The story was played as if it was some huge shift in the attitude of Iraqis and that now they were fighting with us in Iraq. It was showing us how Iraq had perhaps turned the corner.
I just wasn't buying it by the end. Nothing was substantiated. There was no indication that these men were a real militia or that they had fought Al Qaeda. The body the showed as evidence wasn't all that remarkable. How many unmarked graves full of hancuffed bodies can there be in Iraq? Quite a few I imagine. The handcuffs hardly indicate the work of Al Qaeda.
If you read the story, take note of who the primary source is.
Does anyone else have any thoughts on this story?
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/06/07/penhaul.iraq/index.html
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Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 06/09/2007 : 23:40:01 [Permalink]
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I thought we were fighting insurgents in Iraq not Al Qaeda.
Very strange,unless...
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 00:06:27 [Permalink]
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Read this one in the WP.
Seems kinda messed up.
We can't even find al-qaeda without the help of insurgents who have been killing Shiites and US troops for a couple years. They are just pissed off at al-qaeda more than us at the moment.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 02:13:51 [Permalink]
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What I suspect is happening is that the US Army, in one or more local areas, has found locals willing to take its arms, equipment, and money, in return for posing as anti-Al Qaeda fighters. I would expect what the Army has actually paid for is just another gang of Saddamist criminal thugs who attack or prey upon the weak, instead of fighting Al Qaeda. But the Army doesn't mind, so long as they can use this group for domestic US propaganda purposes.
The article itself provides no evidence to against my hypothesis.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 08:04:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
What I suspect is happening is that the US Army, in one or more local areas, has found locals willing to take its arms, equipment, and money, in return for posing as anti-Al Qaeda fighters. I would expect what the Army has actually paid for is just another gang of Saddamist criminal thugs who attack or prey upon the weak, instead of fighting Al Qaeda. But the Army doesn't mind, so long as they can use this group for domestic US propaganda purposes.
The article itself provides no evidence to against my hypothesis.
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I'm not so sure. There may be some of that. I dunno. But the Sunnis were at the top of the pecking order before the war. From a nationalistic point of view, they probably hate everyone fighting for power that isn't them. And that might include Al Qaeda, who are outsiders in a fight for dominance in Iraq, which is, after all, what this war is now about.
I would not be to surprised if it turns out that we have exaggerated our alliance with the Sunni insurgency in the fight against Al Qaeda. By the same token, it doesn't surprise me that some Sunni insurgents might see Al Qaeda as a threat and go after them. What's the point of trying to take your country back if the end result is rule by an outside force anyway?
What a mess we have created.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 21:25:40 [Permalink]
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| If I recall, bin Laden is/was Shi'ite, by extension would not most of Al Qaeda have been or be Shi'ite? The Shi'a and Sunnis have been fighting each other over religious differences as long as the two have been in existence. It would make sense for the Sunnis to fight Shi'a. It would be religious infighting more than wanting to help or hinder US policy in the area. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 22:08:20 [Permalink]
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| Bin Laden is Sunni. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 22:31:15 [Permalink]
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| Ah well, my mistake. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 23:07:23 [Permalink]
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I can see Iraqi Sunnis helping kill al-qaeda. The Sunnis don't like outsiders, and if the other news stories about al-qaeda in Iraq are accurate (foreigners, have killed Sunni and Shiite to get them fighting one another, etc), then it is plausible some Sunni are helping US forces.
I can't see it being more than temporary though.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2007 : 17:13:05 [Permalink]
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After contemplating this briefly...
It is a horrible idea. We armed the Taliban to fight against the USSR. We armed Iraq to fight Iran... Don't we have a long list of arming people who turn on us as soon as we help them kill their current enemy?
This seems like a stupid idea.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2007 : 17:49:37 [Permalink]
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I have seen a bit more about this in the news and this is the question most have been asking. It's also interesting to note that we're arming the Sunni militias in particular.
What might that mean?
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Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2007 : 20:53:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
After contemplating this briefly...
It is a horrible idea. We armed the Taliban to fight against the USSR. We armed Iraq to fight Iran... Don't we have a long list of arming people who turn on us as soon as we help them kill their current enemy?
This seems like a stupid idea. |
Except we didn't arm the Taliban - we armed the mujahadeen. The Taliban was a minor radical splinter group that were educated in the Saudi extremist schools who seized power after the withdrawl of Soviet troops. If I understand right, most of their backing came through Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. It was a Mullah that started the Taliban. I recall reading somewhere that most of the Taliban was not actually involved with the mujahadeen - though my memory can be faulty. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
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Sunnis Fighting Al Qaeda?
