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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 06/14/2007 : 06:32:22
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After all of the giddy applause and venomous bile put forth about Ham's really rather remarkable show, this is the best summery I've read to date. Creation Museum tells a whopper of a tale, with a literal interpretation of Genesis only the beginning
BY Lew Moores | Posted 06/13/2007
Gene Kritsky, evolutionary biologist, walked through the museum. With a camera strap around his neck, he listened to the sound of falling water and walked past a model of a child offering a carrot to a squirrel as two model juvenile dinosaurs played just feet away, past a glass display of live finches, past a dinosaur model perched on a ledge, looked down at another display and learned that poison dart frogs were once benign creatures, "very good," just like every living creature until Adam went and sinned.
Kritsky raised his camera to his eye and captured the images, this record of life explained through another lens called the Book of Genesis. A film crew from the BBC approached, lifted camera to shoulder and asked Kritsky for an explanation: What is the Creation Museum all about?
"It's bait-and-switch," Kritsky would explain moments later, BBC interview concluded. Get them in with dinosaurs, then let the message morph. Adam sins, Noah's ark arrives
Kritsky raised his camera to his eye and captured the images, this record of life explained through another lens called the Book of Genesis. A film crew from the BBC approached, lifted camera to shoulder and asked Kritsky for an explanation: What is the Creation Museum all about?
"It's bait-and-switch," Kritsky would explain moments later, BBC interview concluded. Get them in with dinosaurs, then let the message morph. Adam sins, Noah's ark arrives.
Then it's on to more biblical history and on to a subterranean world that is wrought by sin and animated with a basement of lurid graffiti garishly lit that exposes and excoriates abortion, homosexuality, pornography.
Evolution and the culture wars. In this dank, subway-like atmosphere of headlines that scream of teen pregnancies and drugs among those other vices, AiG and the museum tries to connect the dots.
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That this is propaganda in perhaps one of it's purest forms goes without saying; we all knew that from the get-go, but there is much more going on in there. As the essay reveals, it is also a promotion of a far-right, political agenda and a fiercely determined attempt to brainwash children.
Found it at Red State Rabble.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2007 : 06:36:10 [Permalink]
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Poison dart frogs were once "benign"? How are they not now? Not like they go looking for a fight...
I guess before The Fall(tm) no animal ate any other animal, so no need for the poison, eh?
Why aren't Christians vegans then? Wouldn't that be closer to how Man was before The Fall(tm)? Was the Christ a Vegan?
It's all so confusing... |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 06/14/2007 06:37:48 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 06/14/2007 : 09:55:37 [Permalink]
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The biggest, most deliberate, and egregious outright lie from Ken Ham in that article was probably: | "They say our science is bogus," Ham was saying. "But it is exactly the same science that these people study. We all study the same genetics. ... It's the belief about origins -- that's what's different." |
"... Exactly the same science"? Ham's not at all delusional. He's a lying sack of shit, building his own power, wealth, and personal empire.
He's not even a "pious fraud," just the promoter of a fraudulent anti-science circus.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 06/14/2007 : 12:34:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
The biggest, most deliberate, and egregious outright lie from Ken Ham in that article was probably: | "They say our science is bogus," Ham was saying. "But it is exactly the same science that these people study. We all study the same genetics. ... It's the belief about origins -- that's what's different." |
"... Exactly the same science"? Ham's not at all delusional. He's a lying sack of shit, building his own power, wealth, and personal empire.
He's not even a "pious fraud," just the promoter of a fraudulent anti-science circus.
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Yeh, ain't it grand? No more hovind, at least not for the foreseeable future, but now have Ham. And he's as easy to take apart like a blowed engine as the erstwhile Dr. Dino. All you need is the facts and the viciousness willingness to present them. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Poison dart frogs were once "benign"? How are they not now? Not like they go looking for a fight...
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I nigh fell out of my chair when I first read that. This goober knows about as much natural history as I do about brain surgery -- precious, damned little. In fact...
....this is about the extent of it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2007 : 19:10:36 [Permalink]
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What makes creation impossible and evolution indisputable?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2007 : 19:38:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
What makes creation impossible and evolution indisputable? |
Actually, nothing makes such a false dichotomy.
That evolution has and is occuring is indisuptable, but that fact doesn't make creation impossible. An omnipotent God could have created via evolution, and some theistic biologists believe that science is the key to understanding how God created. But evolutionary theory has nothing to say on whether any part of the universe was specially created, and it certainly cannot disprove a divine miracle. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2007 : 19:49:32 [Permalink]
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Dave_W said:
| But evolutionary theory has nothing to say on whether any part of the universe was specially created, and it certainly cannot disprove a divine miracle. |
In principle I agree with this, but I don't like the way you have phrased it.
Obviously evolution cannot disprove some divine intervention which it does not exclude. But evolution certainly does exclude, and disprove, some of the literal claims of the bible and other religious myths of creation. There is, for example, overwhelming evidence to link the common ancestry of humans and apes.
As for the "miracles" not excluded by evolution, evolution has no need to disprove them. Those who claim such miracles have occurred are responsible, however, for providing the evidence to support their claims.
Unevidenced assertions are, essentially, meaningless. They may be discarded freely.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2007 : 19:57:37 [Permalink]
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Dude said "There is, for example, overwhelming evidence to link the common ancestry of humans and apes."
There is overwhelming evidence to link the common ancestry of all animals. This does not prove an explanation of origin.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2007 : 19:59:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
What makes creation impossible and evolution indisputable?
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On the former, nothing "makes" it impossible, but there's not much good evidence for it as described by any of the religions I'm familiar with.
On the latter, nothing in the body of scientific knowledge is completely indisputable, there just needs to be evidence suggesting why it needs to be disputed.
Got reason to believe the theory of gravitation is bullshit? No problem, present some evidence. Plenty of scientists will follow your research or start their own if it looks like there's any merit whatsoever in it.
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John's just this guy, you know. |
| Edited by - JohnOAS on 06/14/2007 20:00:10 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2007 : 20:07:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
There is overwhelming evidence to link the common ancestry of all animals. This does not prove an explanation of origin. |
Evolutionary theory doesn't seek to explain the origin of life itself. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2007 : 20:43:57 [Permalink]
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Jerome said:
Dude said "There is, for example, overwhelming evidence to link the common ancestry of humans and apes."
There is overwhelming evidence to link the common ancestry of all animals. This does not prove an explanation of origin.
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Evolution is concerned with, well, evolution. The study of the actual origin of life is a field called Abiogenesis.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2007 : 01:23:58 [Permalink]
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I might suggest this site for full and heavily referenced explanations of almost anything you might want to know about evolution, abiogenesis, the Big Bang, YEC mendacity (including some of AiG's) and so forth. Talk.origins is a Usenet newsgroup devoted to the discussion and debate of biological and physical origins. Most discussions in the newsgroup center on the creation/evolution controversy, but other topics of discussion include the origin of life, geology, biology, catastrophism, cosmology and theology.
The TalkOrigins Archive is a collection of articles and essays, most of which have appeared in talk.origins at one time or another. The primary reason for this archive's existence is to provide mainstream scientific responses to the many frequently asked questions (FAQs) that appear in the talk.origins newsgroup and the frequently rebutted assertions of those advocating intelligent design or other creationist pseudosciences.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2007 : 06:00:23 [Permalink]
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What I Learned at the Creation Museum
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The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2007 : 07:09:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
What makes creation impossible and evolution indisputable? |
Actually, nothing makes such a false dichotomy.
That evolution has and is occuring is indisuptable, but that fact doesn't make creation impossible. An omnipotent God could have created via evolution, and some theistic biologists believe that science is the key to understanding how God created. But evolutionary theory has nothing to say on whether any part of the universe was specially created, and it certainly cannot disprove a divine miracle.
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In science, hypotheses that are not falsifiable are rejected. Right?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/18/2007 07:12:39 |
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An anaylisis of the Creation Museum(?).
