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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
 Posted - 07/01/2007 : 12:22:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Siberia said:
| Humans are more sophisticated than most animals. It's all a question of proportion, bro. Have you ever seen lead stallions fighting for dominance? A colt taking over his father? Colts and fillies being expelled from the herd? |
Do any of your examples show a change in the structure of the society?
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Oh, certainly. The lead mare may cease to be the lead mare. A favorite may rise in ranks. The expelled colt and fillies may start a new herd... and return to fight his father as he did once.
It's all about proportion, bro. Like Dave said. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 12:30:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marty
...Some people believe that we would be better with no government, and most believe that government is necessary... |
I favor big "tax & spend" government* with proper taxation of wealthy citizens and corporations and spending on social, cultural and scientific opportunities.
*(As opposed to a fake small government that is actually a big government with enormous debt and monies devoted to hoarding, death and war profits for its elite members and narrow supporters.)
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 13:17:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Chippewa
Originally posted by marty
...Some people believe that we would be better with no government, and most believe that government is necessary... |
I favor big "tax & spend" government* with proper taxation of wealthy citizens and corporations and spending on social, cultural and scientific opportunities.
*(As opposed to a fake small government that is actually a big government with enormous debt and monies devoted to hoarding, death and war profits for its elite members and narrow supporters.)
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So, you favor taxing 49% of the population and spreading their labor over the other 51%?
This would cause the producers by labor to become recipients of others labor; this would cause the lack of incentive, thus the lack of production. (Here everyone starves)
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 13:47:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
...So, you favor taxing 49% of the population and spreading their labor over the other 51%?... |
I cited no percentages. You did. Again, you make up your own fantasies, accept them as facts, then attribute the lies to other members who post here. 
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 13:57:58 [Permalink]
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Val said:
And the implications of "wilt" in the religious sense of the word has caveats against infringing on other's freewill, causing harm to thoers, etc.
To clear up the confusion, most modern day Neopagans have changed the Wiccan Rede to "An ye harm none, do what thou wilt". (The Golden Dawn movement was a precursor to Wicca.)
Crowley always viewed government as a way to control the "unelightened" so they didn't hurt themselves. |
That is what I call apologetics.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 14:48:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Chippewa
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
...So, you favor taxing 49% of the population and spreading their labor over the other 51%?... |
I cited no percentages. You did. Again, you make up your own fantasies, accept them as facts, then attribute the lies to other members who post here.
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This is the natural culmination of a "big "tax & spend" government"; look to the results of your prescriptions.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 15:59:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
This is the natural culmination of a "big "tax & spend" government"; look to the results of your prescriptions. |
Good point about "prescriptions". Medical care for all citizens should be socialized. 
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 16:26:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Chippewa
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
This is the natural culmination of a "big "tax & spend" government"; look to the results of your prescriptions. |
Good point about "prescriptions". Medical care for all citizens should be socialized.
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Ahhh, but were is the incentive for research and development without incentive?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 16:53:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Ahhh, but were is the incentive for research and development without incentive? |
It's not often that one sees a tautological question. Bravo, Jerome. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/01/2007 : 17:05:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Ahhh, but were is the incentive for research and development without incentive? |
It's not often that one sees a tautological question. Bravo, Jerome.
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That was to emphasize the point. Thanks for the new word!
 tautologous! |
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 17:58:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Ahhh, but were is the incentive for research and development without incentive? |
It's not often that one sees a tautological question. Bravo, Jerome.
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A research incentive for research and development without incentive is that which furthers the development of development. (Tautologically speaking.)
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 19:28:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Chippewa
Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Ahhh, but were is the incentive for research and development without incentive? |
It's not often that one sees a tautological question. Bravo, Jerome.
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A research incentive for research and development without incentive is that which furthers the development of development. (Tautologically speaking.)
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Yeaaa, Chippewa!
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 21:02:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Val said:
And the implications of "wilt" in the religious sense of the word has caveats against infringing on other's freewill, causing harm to thoers, etc.
To clear up the confusion, most modern day Neopagans have changed the Wiccan Rede to "An ye harm none, do what thou wilt". (The Golden Dawn movement was a precursor to Wicca.)
Crowley always viewed government as a way to control the "unelightened" so they didn't hurt themselves. |
That is what I call apologetics.
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I call it researching the foundations of my religion and reading accounts written by contemporaries in the Golden Dawn movement. Some minor works by his wife Vivianne and oral accounts from tradition elders also filled in the holes.
I've also read Crowley's works on the Kabbalah and gleaned some additional meaning in the structure of his approach to the Kabbalah as a majickal methodology.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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marty
BANNED
63 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2007 : 21:12:31 [Permalink]
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Getting back to the point for a minute, can man survive without a government? I saw that one person responded to this directly saying that without government, neighborhoods would ban together and those would ban together and so on and so forth until we have the current state of things.
Based on Locke's social contract theory, we need government to mediate our differences. However, Locke (nor do many others) touch on the specific roles and extent to which government oversees daily life. For instance, do humans need some sort of court system in which two people can bring their dispute to an impartial arbitrator? Of course, this type of construct has been around for thousands of years. On the other hand, do we need OSHA http://www.osha.gov/, NASA http://www.nasa.gov/, Department of Education http://www.ed.gov/index.jhtml ? |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Should we have government?
