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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/12/2007 : 13:44:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
By the way, do you know why no pictures have been taken of the lunar landers from any telescopes? |
Yes.
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Why?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
 Posted - 07/12/2007 : 13:50:45 [Permalink]
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| I have a friend that is an officer in the pentagon and I assure you that a newspaper can be read from space. |
A friend of my aunt (they go to the same church) told her that her son is the head of the spy satellite division and that spy satellite can only resolve at best about a 4" object.
Actually you can find this data in some declassified articles.
I have another way to know the most likely resolution; it is called science. Here is how it works:
1. Distance of a satellite in low earth orbit
2. Probable payload size based on current rockets in use
3. Visible light wave length/mirror diameter.
4. Dimensions of letters in newsprint.
You can't resolve newsprint - figure it out....
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2007 : 13:55:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by dv82matt
From how far away can a camera "read" a newspaper? Answer the question Jerome. |
Earth orbit. |
From your other post:
| Quickbird can take pictures with a resolution of about 23 inches. I would presume the government has better technology than is available commercially. |
Quickbird at an altitude of 450 kilometers does not have sufficient resolution to read a licence plate let alone a newspaper on the Earth's surface and the Moon is 850 times further away.
| I have a friend that is an officer in the pentagon and I assure you that a newspaper can be read from space. |
Well that settles it then.  |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2007 : 14:05:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by furshur
| I have a friend that is an officer in the pentagon and I assure you that a newspaper can be read from space. |
A friend of my aunt (they go to the same church) told her that her son is the head of the spy satellite division and that spy satellite can only resolve at best about a 4" object.
Actually you can find this data in some declassified articles.
I have another way to know the most likely resolution; it is called science. Here is how it works:
1. Distance of a satellite in low earth orbit
2. Probable payload size based on current rockets in use
3. Visible light wave length/mirror diameter.
4. Dimensions of letters in newsprint.
You can't resolve newsprint - figure it out....
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You believe that a private camera that can resolve 23" is the best we have.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2007 : 14:06:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
The point is features could be seen from earth with primitive telescopes. Of course there are not "canals" on Mars. |
Actually, no the point of Lowell's story (and the "Face on Mars" debacle) is that with a low-resolution imaging system and some wishful thinking, one can see features that don't actually exist. The further point is that using Lowell's canals as proof that "primitive telescopes" were pretty good actually damages your argument, rather than supports it. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2007 : 14:17:16 [Permalink]
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Mars seen by Hubble around 5:51 a.m. ET on Aug. 27, during Mars closest approach to Earth in nearly 60,000 years.
But this is the Hubble taking a picture of the moon from 140 times closer?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2007 : 14:17:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Keep in mind with only telescopes man saw canals on mars. |
No, nobody ever saw any canals on Mars. |
The point is features could be seen from earth with primitive telescopes. Of course there are not "canals" on Mars. |
Do you not see how the nonexistence of the features you mention torpedos your argument?
Reformulate your argument using surface features imaged from earth that actually exist. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2007 : 14:20:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
You believe that a private camera that can resolve 23" is the best we have. |
Well, the burden of proof is on you then. Please provide evidence that a newspaper can be read by a satellite in earth orbit. Fictional movies and anecdotal evidence do not count. I am very interested. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2007 : 14:24:46 [Permalink]
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Percival Lowell (1855-1916) who published his book titled simply Mars in 1895.
Features seen with primitive telescope.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2007 : 14:29:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by dv82matt
Jerome can you point out any features on the moon photographed from earth or near earth orbit that are 9 meters or less across? |
I have not seen any photos with that resolution as not have been published. |
So why do you think they exist then? |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2007 : 14:35:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by pleco
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
You believe that a private camera that can resolve 23" is the best we have. |
Well, the burden of proof is on you then. Please provide evidence that a newspaper can be read by a satellite in earth orbit. Fictional movies and anecdotal evidence do not count. I am very interested.
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Here is one that can do 16", they keep getting smaller.
http://www.gdc4s.com/news/newsprint.cfm?prid=14
Keep in mind this information is for public consumption.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2007 : 14:40:32 [Permalink]
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| Let's begin with a satellite just 300 km above the Earth, looking at standard 12-point newsprint. To read it at all well, it's going to need to have a resolution on the order of a tenth of a millimeter per pixel, or an angular resolution (at 300 km) of about 3.33×10-10 radians. Assuming we look in blue light only - to get the best resolution in visible light - we can see that to get such a fantastic resolution, we'd need a telescope with a diameter of about 1,350 meters, not including the extra power needed to overcome atmospheric aberrations. Has anything that large been launched? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2007 : 14:51:26 [Permalink]
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I think poor trollboy is getting his cameras mixed up. There are spy cameras that can resolve newsprint from a distance... but they are mounted on spyplanes, like the old SR-71, and operate from a distance of only a few miles, not tens or hundreds.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2007 : 15:13:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
And this is how well a 4,300-pound satellite can see. You can just barely make out the different rows of seats (but not any individual seat).
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The question stands: Does the publicized commercial technology represent the pinnacle of our ability?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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