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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2007 : 16:56:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Dave, please define evolutionary theory.
With each point, you tell me I do not understand. Please define evolution.
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Okey-dokey. Definition of evolution: ost non-scientists seem to be quite confused about precise definitions of biological evolution. Such confusion is due in large part to the inability of scientists to communicate effectively to the general public and also to confusion among scientists themselves about how to define such an important term. When discussing evolution it is important to distinguish between the existence of evolution and various theories about the mechanism of evolution. And when referring to the existence of evolution it is important to have a clear definition in mind. What exactly do biologists mean when they say that they have observed evolution or that humans and chimps have evolved from a common ancestor?
One of the most respected evolutionary biologists has defined biological evolution as follows:
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Now riddle me this, Jerome: Why should I, or anyone, do your homework for you?
Get off your lazy ass and look this stuff up for yourself!
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Ahh, come on; this is what I have been saying: evolution is defined in such broad terms that almost anything biological is considered a part of and an example of evolution.
Evolution is equal in evidence to "goddidit"
"goddidit"="naturedidit"
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2007 : 17:00:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred
Miraculous creation means God making exceptions to His own existing laws of nature.
Is that what we're discussing here?
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We are talking about the evidence for life's ability to come from non life.
I think based on the non evidence of life coming from non life that life comes from life. A caveat to this is that we do not currently understand all there is to know in the universe.
The opposing point is a God can not exist therefore life must come from non life.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 17:00:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Ahh, come on; this is what I have been saying: evolution is defined in such broad terms that almost anything biological is considered a part of and an example of evolution. |
It would have to be, Jerome, or otherwise the theory would fail to explain observations.Evolution is equal in evidence to "goddidit"
"goddidit"="naturedidit" |
Nice religious mantra you've got there. It's a shame that your repetitions won't make it magically come true. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2007 : 17:02:53 [Permalink]
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Halfmooner, a sure sign of understanding is the ability to relate a topic in ones own words to the understanding of another. You therefore do not understand the point of view which you defend.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 17:16:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Halfmooner, a sure sign of understanding is the ability to relate a topic in ones own words to the understanding of another. You therefore do not understand the point of view which you defend.
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Others and I have tried with you, Jerome, but to no avail. There can come a point when even the best teachers (among which I do not include myself, but do include Filthy and others here) simply have to throw up their arms in dismay, and accept that their student is a stone-headed dunce.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 17:39:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
There can come a point when even the best teachers and others here simply have to throw up their arms in dismay, and accept that their student is a stone-headed dunce.
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This sentence made me laugh out loud!
Thanks!
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2007 : 18:08:57 [Permalink]
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Ahh, come on; this is what I have been saying: evolution is defined in such broad terms that almost anything biological is considered a part of and an example of evolution.
Evolution is equal in evidence to "goddidit"
"goddidit"="naturedidit"
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How exactly, does this gibberish mean anything? Without support, it is no more than words in (and of) the wind. You have made the bolded statement; now back it up!
Or are you going to crawfish away with red herrings and useless blather, as we have come to expect?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 19:08:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Ahh, come on; this is what I have been saying: evolution is defined in such broad terms that almost anything biological is considered a part of and an example of evolution.
Evolution is equal in evidence to "goddidit"
"goddidit"="naturedidit"
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How exactly, does this gibberish mean anything? Without support, it is no more than words in (and of) the wind. You have made the bolded statement; now back it up!
Or are you going to crawfish away with red herrings and useless blather, as we have come to expect?
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You presented a definition of evolution that encompasses almost every biological function.
Based on this definition anything that happens biologically can be ascribed to evolution.
This is no different than ascribing any biological function to any any all encompassing speculation.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 19:28:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
You presented a definition of evolution that encompasses almost every biological function. |
It has to, Jerome, otherwise evolutionary theory would fail to explain what we see, and so it would be a bad theory.
But the key word is "almost." If we see a horse sprout bird-like wings, it would falsify evolution. If we find a Devonian bunny, it would falsify evolution. There are plenty of scenarios we can dream up which would falsify evolution, but they're not found in nature.| Based on this definition anything that happens biologically can be ascribed to evolution. |
No, you've dropped the "almost" that is necessary for that sentence to be true.| This is no different than ascribing any biological function to any any all encompassing speculation. |
Except it's not based upon speculation, it's based on observations, lab experiments, logic and scientific inference.
Now on the other hand, "Goddidit" really can explain everything that might happen anywhere at any time. There is no possible way to falsify "Goddidit," because there's no way that anyone can think of something that God cannot do. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 19:33:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by filthy
Ahh, come on; this is what I have been saying: evolution is defined in such broad terms that almost anything biological is considered a part of and an example of evolution.
Evolution is equal in evidence to "goddidit"
"goddidit"="naturedidit"
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How exactly, does this gibberish mean anything? Without support, it is no more than words in (and of) the wind. You have made the bolded statement; now back it up!
Or are you going to crawfish away with red herrings and useless blather, as we have come to expect?
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You presented a definition of evolution that encompasses almost every biological function.
Based on this definition anything that happens biologically can be ascribed to evolution.
This is no different than ascribing any biological function to any any all encompassing speculation.
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You see, evolution really is that central to biology. Everywhere you turn, there's evolution operating. Removing it from the science, as you YEC primitives would like to see, would be like removing consideration of gravity from astronomy.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 19:46:42 [Permalink]
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This is amazing!
Basically; you are both saying, that evolution is true because we observe biological functions.
Can you not see that this is the same as any other all encompassing explanation for the variety of life.
This is circular reasoning.
Giving yourselves an out by saying it would be falsifiable if, is nothing more than self deception.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 19:57:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
This is amazing!
Basically; you are both saying, that evolution is true because we observe biological functions.
Can you not see that this is the same as any other all encompassing explanation for the variety of life.
This is circular reasoning.
Giving yourselves an out by saying it would be falsifiable if, is nothing more than self deception.
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Jerome, you aren't a very smart person, yet you persist in lecturing your intellectual superiors, which is virtually everyone. There is the fact of evolution and the theory of evolution. That life evolves is a fact, the theory of evolution explains that fact. So there's no circular reasoning here. Any alternative theory would still need to account for the fact that life evolves.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 20:00:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
This is amazing!
Basically; you are both saying, that evolution is true because we observe biological functions.
Can you not see that this is the same as any other all encompassing explanation for the variety of life.
This is circular reasoning.
Giving yourselves an out by saying it would be falsifiable if, is nothing more than self deception.
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No. Because we observe evolutionary functions, lackwit. And they are pervasive throughout biology.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/15/2007 20:01:34 |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2007 : 20:03:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Jerome, you aren't a very smart person, yet you persist in lecturing your intellectual superiors, which is virtually everyone. There is the fact of evolution and the theory of evolution. That life evolves is a fact, the theory of evolution explains that fact. So there's no circular reasoning here. Any alternative theory would still need to account for the fact that life evolves.
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It is dumbfounding how one claiming intellectual superiority could claim that something is both fact and theory; in the same sentence no less.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Evolution caught in the act!
