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Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend
USA
220 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 14:19:48 [Permalink]
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| Nah. Duct tape holds the universe together. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
 Posted - 07/17/2007 : 17:02:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
Electricity is so 19th century, I think the color force shapeed the universe.
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Right... Those darn Power Rangers.
Hang em'. Hang em' high.
Seriously, though.
Electrical force isn't important at the extreme distances of the universe. Gravitation with general and special relativity fits the model quite nicely. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 17:26:48 [Permalink]
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Marf noted:| I am just as right if I answer "2, jackass" as if I answer "2". |
Arguably, twice as right.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 18:57:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
By the way, gravity is only the weakest force up to the scale of biological cells. At the scale of galaxies, gravity is dominant because most matter at such scales is electrically neutral.
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Gravity's force increases with scale and is greater than magnetism?
What is more powerful:
The earths gravity
A hand held magnet
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 07/17/2007 : 18:58:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
Jerome wrote: | I am currently reading per your suggestion. It does not begin well for the skeptics with these attacks on the first page: |
You are just distracting from the main issue. If we are arguing about what 1+1 equals, I am just as right if I answer "2, jackass" as if I answer "2". So why don't you refrain from pointing out the insults in between and pay attention to the meat of peoples' arguments.
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So, why did you attempt a sly insult as opposed to a reasoned response?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 19:14:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Gravity's force increases with scale... |
No, the other forces decrease with scale.What is more powerful:
The earths gravity
A hand held magnet |
You haven't provided enough information. A fridge magnet can hold a paperclip up against the force of gravity, but it cannot hold a bank vault up against the force of gravity.
[/quote] |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 19:23:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
No, the other forces decrease with scale. |
A large magnetic field has less strength than a small magnetic field?
| You haven't provided enough information. A fridge magnet can hold a paperclip up against the force of gravity, but it cannot hold a bank vault up against the force of gravity. |
What are you trying to do with this one? Obscure reality?
Is there a magnet that is smaller than the earth that can counter the earths gravitational force on the safe? Yes.
Do you have any empirical evidence that gravity is a stronger force than magnetism?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 20:16:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Originally posted by Dave W.
No, the other forces decrease with scale. |
A large magnetic field has less strength than a small magnetic field? |
No. But a refrigerator magnet doesn't exert the same attraction to a refrigerator from 8 feet as it does from 2 inches.
| Do you have any empirical evidence that gravity is a stronger force than magnetism? |
Over long distances, gravity is the stronger force. The other forces decrease exponentially with distance. In short distances, gravity is the weakest. Across galaxies, nothing beats gravity.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 21:42:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Do you have any empirical evidence that gravity is a stronger force than magnetism? |
Between electromagnetism and gravity electromagnetism is, by many orders of magnitude, the stronger force. For the large scale structures in the universe gravity is the dominant force because most matter in the universe is electrically neutral on large scales. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 21:56:12 [Permalink]
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Matt, do you really think telling Jerome the scientific facts again is going to get him to see it?
And actually, H., all of the forces decrease exponentially with distance. The two nuclear forces drop off quickly enough that as soon as you're talking about something as big as a bacterium, the strong and weak forces across it can be considered to be zero.
The electrostatic and gravitational forces both drop with distance-squared in a pure vacuum. The trouble is, on large scales - the size of galaxies - there's just as much positively charged matter as negatively charged matter, and so from a distance a galaxy appears to be electrically neutral and exerts no appreciable electrostatic force at all to things outside it. To illustrate in a different realm, an electron extends a field, and a proton extends a field, but put them together into a hydrogen atom, and the two fields cancel out leaving the atom electrically neutral. Within a galaxy, one might find big ribbons of charged plasmas running between stars, but gather enough of them together (the whole galaxy) and you'll find they cancel each other out, on average.
Gravity, on the other hand, isn't polar - it always sucks. More mass equals more gravity. There isn't anything that produces antigravity to cancel it out. A hydrogen atom sucks a little, a galaxy sucks a lot. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2007 : 22:30:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Matt, do you really think telling Jerome the scientific facts again is going to get him to see it?
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One can't help hoping. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2007 : 00:42:23 [Permalink]
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Even if Jerome did get it, he'd post something obtuse and deliberately troll-like just to get a rise out of you.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2007 : 05:02:30 [Permalink]
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My guess is that Jerome looked back at some of the old threads and saw how contentious the electric universe was so he brought it up to continue his childish trolling.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2007 : 08:22:27 [Permalink]
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Ah, thanks for that explanation, Dave. I had obviously remembered wrong.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2007 : 18:48:58 [Permalink]
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There seems to be a number of scientific groups currently studying the idea of space plasm, and the idea of electromagnetism and plasmas being the forming agent of the universe.
Plasma Astrophysics References
U.S.-based Research Groups
Theoretical Astrophysics Center, University of California at Berkeley
Plasma Science & Technology Institute, UCLA, Los Angeles, California
Center for High Energy Density Plasmas, Cornell University, Ithaca, New York
Department of Physics and Astronomy, University of Iowa, Iowa City, Iowa
Institute for Research in Electronics & Applied Physics, University of Maryland, College Park
Center for Space Research and Plasma Science & Fusion Center, MIT
Center for Theoretical Geo/Cosmo Plasma Physics, MIT
Program in Plasma Physics, Princeton University
graduate program in basic plasma physics, magnetic fusion, and plasma astrophysics
Space Physics & Astronomy, Rice University Houston, Texas
Toshi Tajima, University of Texas, Austin, Texas
Oliver Manuel, Dept of Chemistry, Univ. of Missouri-Rolla
cosmo-chemistry; isotope mass spectroscopy for origin of elements in the solar-system |
These do not seem like crackpot groups.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Does Plasm Not Gravity Structure the Universe?
