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Abdul Alhazred
Skeptic Friend
USA
58 Posts |
 Posted - 07/20/2007 : 06:02:50
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Chimera embryos have right to life, say bishops [ Telegraph (UK) ]
Human-animal hybrid embryos conceived in the laboratory - so-called “chimeras” - should be regarded as human and their mothers should be allowed to give birth to them, the Roman Catholic Church said yesterday.
Under draft Government legislation to be debated by Parliament later this year, scientists will be given permission for the first time to create such embryos for research as long as they destroy them within two weeks.
But the Catholic bishops of England and Wales, in a submission to the Parliamentary joint committee scrutinising the draft legislation, said that the genetic mothers of “chimeras” should be able to raise them as their own children if they wished.
The bishops said that they did not see why these “interspecies” embryos should be treated any differently than others.
The wide-ranging draft Human Tissue and Embryo Bill, which aims to overhaul the laws on fertility treatment, will include sections on test tube babies, embryo research and abortion. Ministers say that the creation of animal-human embryos - created by injecting animal cells or DNA into human embryos or human cells into animal eggs - will be heavily regulated.
They insist that it will be against the law to implant “chimeras” - named after the mythical creature that was half man and half animal - into a woman's womb.
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Emphasis added.
Are the "genetic mothers" on the human side of the family? Weren't they just doing a little recombination of human genes in animal cells?
This raises more questions than it solves.
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The lack of a rational explanation is not evidence for an irrational explanation. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 06:55:43 [Permalink]
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Look like the Bishops are afraid man will make gods!
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 07:48:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Look like the Bishops are afraid man will make gods!
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On the contrary. Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of the English language should have been able to understand from the quote that the Bishops thought the chimera should be allowed to be born. Hence: Bishops were not afraid.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 08:31:56 [Permalink]
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If I understand correctly, they are using the animal egg, taking the genetic material from the egg and putting human genetic material in it. This is because here is a shortage of human eggs to make stem cells. Is that correct? They are then destroyed after the stem cells are harvested.
If this is correct, then what is the difference in what they are doing today with human embryos as far as ethics are concerned? It still is an issue of what is ethically right. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 08:57:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Look like the Bishops are afraid man will make gods!
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OK, so the little tiger-centaur-thing on the right is pretty fucking cool looking. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 11:02:44 [Permalink]
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If the chimeras can become anything like the cool critters Jerome has promised us, I support the bishops!
Oh, course the Mad Arab's point in the OP is something those pious churchmen apparently did not consider carefully before shooting their mouths off: Which biological mothers should give them birth and raise them? What if that mommy is a mouse?
Actually, it looks to me (and I'll happily stand corrected if needed) that the "chimera" research is really about "cybrid" (cytoplasmic hybrid) cells, used in medical research to separate the effects of nuclear and mitchondrial DNA in in vitro experiments. (Such research has already shown that mitochondrial DNA is implicated in Alzheimer's.) Growing an organism to term was never considered, as far as I can see. Nor does this seem to be about "chimeras" in the sense of multicellular organisms with groups of separate cells from different species. Maybe the bishops should have done their research. Or maybe they were just following orders from their Hitler Youth/Roman Inquisition boss.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/20/2007 11:03:18 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 11:06:40 [Permalink]
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Robb wrote: | It still is an issue of what is ethically right. |
I agree. And in cases such as these where absolutely no suffering is induced and the potential to alleviate a great deal of suffering is present, I'd say that doing this sort of research ranks high on my scale of ethics. I don't put much weight at all on symbolic or religious or purely emotionally based concepts of what human is. I care about the experience of the potential "victim" in question, and their loved ones. In this case, the "victim" never reaches a stage of development where they can reasonably feel or think anything, and there are no loved-ones to mourn. And no, I don't consider total strangers decrying this sort of research as "loved-ones". |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 07/20/2007 11:07:53 |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 11:28:18 [Permalink]
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| I feel this is just a BS plan to backup their abortion position, if a human embryo is valid then so must be the embryo of X. I love to see a mouse nurse the Tigracentaur though, or Kirk Camerons Frogbull. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 11:30:33 [Permalink]
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| Hey you Photoshop experts, can you make me an avatar of a Kirk Cameron/random animal halfbreed, its all the proof we need. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 12:07:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf...
Hey you Photoshop experts, can you make me an avatar of a Kirk Cameron/random animal halfbreed, its all the proof we need. |
With my sincere apologies to the pig.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 12:17:27 [Permalink]
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There's the Golden Lion Cameron:
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/20/2007 16:02:38 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 12:49:02 [Permalink]
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| Funny, except isn't Ray Comfort Aussie? |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 13:39:54 [Permalink]
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Funny, except isn't Ray Comfort Aussie?
[/quote]I think he is from New Zealand, and I do not think that he is that tall. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 13:51:38 [Permalink]
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| I think he is from New Zealand, and I do not think that he is that tall. |
LOL |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 14:02:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Look like the Bishops are afraid man will make gods!
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OK, so the little tiger-centaur-thing on the right is pretty fucking cool looking.
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I see that you haven't been playing Wing Commander... The Kilrathi is a humanoid tiger race.
(By the way, there's now a Wing Commander movie) |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Uh oh. Medical ethics just got even weirder.
