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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 07/29/2007 : 02:44:00
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I see Derren Brown has a show on the sci-fi channel. I haven't seen it yet, but my sister's description makes it sound pretty good.
I've watched some of the clips at Channel 4 and it looks like it would be entertaining. He even describes how some of the things are done.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Edited by - Gorgo on 07/29/2007 02:45:12
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2007 : 11:10:04 [Permalink]
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I watched the first episode on SciFi.com. Don't want to spoil too much, but he shows us how to be swindlers and pick up chicks, and astound the astoundable. Well worth watching, if you haven't seen it.
Speaks to how easily we can be manipulated. On the Channel 4 web site, some might like the piece where he takes the new agey lady out into the forest. I don't remember his exact words, but I think it was something to the effect that New Agers would be more susceptible to his tricks, and he made that sound like a bad thing. Or that's the impression I remember now. I think all kinds of people are suggestible, and that is good for him, and not necessarily bad for the suggestible. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 07/29/2007 11:11:03 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2007 : 02:45:29 [Permalink]
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Deren Brown is a guy who have learned how the mind works. And some of the stuff are downright scary.
The best thing of it all is that he does not claim psychic abilities even though he could have made a fortune pretending to be one. He makes Sylvia Browne, Praag and the rest of them look like second rate amateurs who doesn't know what they are doing. In many cases he even explain how the stuff works.
His shows are great and I encourage everyone to see them. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 07/30/2007 02:46:42 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2007 : 06:25:28 [Permalink]
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| Yes, it's almost like a magician showing how he doesn't really saw the woman in half, yet it's even more entertaining. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2007 : 21:53:50 [Permalink]
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| Yes if by more entertaining, you mean more fake. Come on, half those people he does his 'psychology' on are plants. Or he probably has to edit out the zillion times he gets stuff wrong. A lot of the stuff he does is just TOO ridiculous, like when he 'hyptnotized' a guy to think he was in a zombie video game. I remember thinking he'd gone too far and it was too unbelievable, pretty much everyone I was watching it with (even gullible types) were pointing out the logical flaws in the 'experiment'. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2007 : 06:56:22 [Permalink]
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In the first show I watched, at the end, he showed an outtake of something that didn't work. I think it's clear that he has people that work for him helping to make it work, but he says that he does not use plants. Up to you to decide if that's a lie.
I didn't see the one you were talking about. My computer at home is fried, so I won't be watching for a while. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2007 : 07:19:38 [Permalink]
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From wiki:
During stage performances, Brown chooses participants at random in his stage show by throwing an object (a frisbee or cuddly toy) to the audience and having them pass it around; whoever ends up with the object joins him on stage.
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Derren has commented that if he used actors, he would have to pay them and would be more trouble than he would like. |
OFFC, you have any evidence for the plants? I've never seen this guy, and I have no opinion one way or the other. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 08/06/2007 07:21:39 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2007 : 07:23:12 [Permalink]
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Yes, I see in the clip on the internet that a woman is put to sleep over the phone. The clip is sped up and some may think that she is hypnotized in less than a minute, but the description says that it takes several minutes.
He's a showman, but it appears that he tries to show what really happens. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2007 : 12:08:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
Yes if by more entertaining, you mean more fake. Come on, half those people he does his 'psychology' on are plants. Or he probably has to edit out the zillion times he gets stuff wrong. A lot of the stuff he does is just TOO ridiculous, like when he 'hyptnotized' a guy to think he was in a zombie video game. I remember thinking he'd gone too far and it was too unbelievable, pretty much everyone I was watching it with (even gullible types) were pointing out the logical flaws in the 'experiment'.
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Of course his act is fake. He's a stage magician. What makes him an honest entertainer instead of a crooked "psychic" is simply that he makes no supernatural claims. Otherwise, any kind of fakery at all is fair play for a stage magician. Fraud, "ringers," anything is permissible within the field. Ask Randi.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 08/06/2007 12:10:58 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2007 : 12:39:36 [Permalink]
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| He does make claims that he doesn't use plants or camera tricks, so if someone has claims to the contrary that can be backed up, that would be interesting. However, from what I've seen, he's made it clear that some of this stuff doesn't work with everyone, for instance, and that there is a good amount of set up in order to make some of it work at all. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2007 : 13:03:23 [Permalink]
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I was used as a kind of stooge in a magic trick, the old "sawing a woman in half" routine. The magician picked me as a random volunteer observer. Then, when he was occupying the crowd with another trick, his pretty assistant asked me to lie to the audience about what I was about to see.
She smiled, saying, "It's just a fun gag for entertainment, please help us." Who can refuse a pretty girl under those circumstances? Not me, then in my twenties. So I lied to the audience, and ended up being in effect a plant, without having actually been planted in the audience. Maybe that's how Brown is able to say he uses no "plants." And I think it's legitimate, in the context of stage magic.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 08/06/2007 14:10:53 |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2007 : 14:20:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
Yes if by more entertaining, you mean more fake. Come on, half those people he does his 'psychology' on are plants. Or he probably has to edit out the zillion times he gets stuff wrong. A lot of the stuff he does is just TOO ridiculous, like when he 'hyptnotized' a guy to think he was in a zombie video game. I remember thinking he'd gone too far and it was too unbelievable, pretty much everyone I was watching it with (even gullible types) were pointing out the logical flaws in the 'experiment'.
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I would certainly say it is likely they are plants or there are some tricks rather than actual mental effects. But how can you claim with certainty that he does? Simply because you refuse to believe that the mind can be affected to such a serious degree by what we observe? The mind is a very fascinating thing, very complex, and not well studied. I don't see how it is unfounded that it can be altered by what it receives as input.
| Of course his act is fake. He's a stage magician. What makes him an honest entertainer instead of a crooked "psychic" is simply that he makes no supernatural claims. Otherwise, any kind of fakery at all is fair play for a stage magician. Fraud, "ringers," anything is permissible within the field. Ask Randi. |
Are actual stage magicians who tell there audience it is magic invoking the supernatural?
| In the first show I watched, at the end, he showed an outtake of something that didn't work. I think it's clear that he has people that work for him helping to make it work, but he says that he does not use plants. Up to you to decide if that's a lie. |
I'm a bit curious to find out how many of the stunts he does fail, percentage wise. |
Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov |
| Edited by - Ricky on 08/06/2007 14:21:27 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2007 : 14:40:36 [Permalink]
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Ricky asked:| Are actual stage magicians who tell there audience it is magic invoking the supernatural? |
No, that's not what I meant to say. I was just pointing out that the difference between fake psychics and legitimate stage magicians/mentalists is that the latter don't make supernatural claims. Both types trick their audiences, but neither uses or needs "supernatural" means to do so.
A stage magician telling the audience that "magic" is happening seems legit to me, as one kind of "magic" is the stage variety.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 08/06/2007 14:44:47 |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2007 : 17:09:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
| No, that's not what I meant to say. |
I understand that. It's just a thought that never occurred to me.
A stage magician telling the audience that "magic" is happening seems legit to me, as one kind of "magic" is the stage variety. |
I've most certainly seen magicians who have said things to the effect that magic truly exists in this world. But I believe a direct parallel can be made to telling your children about Santa Clause, it's in effect the same exact thing.
Sorry for the hijack.
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When I first replied, I hadn't fully understood your question. But before finishing, I had, so tacked on my last bit.
I would object to a stage magician telling too big of whoppers to his audience. Some certainly must do this, if only for effect. "Magic truly exists in this world," would seem to come pretty close to this line. But even there, he could say, "Well, yes, stage magic."
That was an interesting thought, Ricky.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 08/06/2007 17:12:14 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2007 : 06:46:03 [Permalink]
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| Man, this one is good. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Derren Brown
