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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2007 : 09:02:15 [Permalink]
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Mooner:
I also agree, and regret using "pedophile" when I meant "child molestor." Anyone who has dangerously antisocial desires that he or she suppresses should be thanked for their self-control. |
This seems to imply that those who do act on what you call dangerously antisocial desires mostly have a choice in the matter. Usually a child molester is a pedophile, and suffers from a compulsion that is out of their control. It ain't a matter of suppressing the urge. They would if they could.
Think of the person who washes his hands a hundred times a day. They know they are sick, but they simply can't control the compulsion to do that. And that obsessive compulsion can have dire consequences on the quality of their lives and even the quality of the lives of the people who live with them. But, without treatment, they simply can't stop themselves.
Put another way, if this were a matter of choice, who in their right mind would choose it?
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
 Posted - 08/05/2007 : 12:02:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Mooner:
I also agree, and regret using "pedophile" when I meant "child molestor." Anyone who has dangerously antisocial desires that he or she suppresses should be thanked for their self-control. |
This seems to imply that those who do act on what you call dangerously antisocial desires mostly have a choice in the matter. Usually a child molester is a pedophile, and suffers from a compulsion that is out of their control. It ain't a matter of suppressing the urge. They would if they could.
Think of the person who washes his hands a hundred times a day. They know they are sick, but they simply can't control the compulsion to do that. And that obsessive compulsion can have dire consequences on the quality of their lives and even the quality of the lives of the people who live with them. But, without treatment, they simply can't stop themselves.
Put another way, if this were a matter of choice, who in their right mind would choose it?
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And it gets muddled because sometimes the child (I'm thinking +14 years here) can be mature and smart enough to consent. Maybe I live in a strange country, but I've met far too many 14-year-olds who had sex with other 14-year-olds and older on their own free will.
There was even one such a case here - 14-year-old girl, 22-year-old man, she defended him in court by declaring repeatedly he was her boyfriend, she knew what she was doing and she had agreed to have sex with him. She even said it wasn't her first time, either. The guy was declared innocent as it became obvious he didn't do anything that she didn't want. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2007 : 13:32:48 [Permalink]
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In the US, persons under a certain age are generally considered legally incapable of giving consent to have sex with adults. However, that "certain age" of consent varies widely from state to state. I think a few states take into account the relative ages of the parties where mutual consent is given, with close ages (say, 18 and 16) either lessing the severity of the offense, or making it legal. But most states don't have such details, I believe.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2007 : 11:56:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by pleco
What's next, they will be required to wear a button on their lapel?
You know, the Nazis had pieces of flair, that they made the Jews wear.
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I think the Scarlet Letter is a much better analogy than is holocaust imagery. If you compare child molesters to Jews, you also compare Jews to child-molesters, and they don't deserve that.
Having said that, I'm very much against the idea. A just society must allow people to grow beyond their crimes. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2007 : 12:31:53 [Permalink]
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| Yeah Scarlet Letters dont have lobby groups and anti-defimation leagues. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2007 : 12:34:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
In the US, persons under a certain age are generally considered legally incapable of giving consent to have sex with adults. However, that "certain age" of consent varies widely from state to state. I think a few states take into account the relative ages of the parties where mutual consent is given, with close ages (say, 18 and 16) either lessing the severity of the offense, or making it legal. But most states don't have such details, I believe.
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We have that too, but it's stated in federal law. Statutory rape isn't very common an offense, though, because it's hardly ever reported - unless it's really rape and not just a young girl having consensual sex with an older boy, girl, whatever, and vice-versa. Then it falls under regular rape and possibly pedophilia charges. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2007 : 13:14:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Mycroft
Originally posted by pleco
What's next, they will be required to wear a button on their lapel?
You know, the Nazis had pieces of flair, that they made the Jews wear.
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I think the Scarlet Letter is a much better analogy than is holocaust imagery. If you compare child molesters to Jews, you also compare Jews to child-molesters, and they don't deserve that.
Having said that, I'm very much against the idea. A just society must allow people to grow beyond their crimes.
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I agree, I just wanted to use "You know, the Nazis had pieces of flair, that they made the Jews wear." |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 08/07/2007 04:55:02 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2007 : 21:04:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Mycroft
Originally posted by pleco
What's next, they will be required to wear a button on their lapel?
You know, the Nazis had pieces of flair, that they made the Jews wear.
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I think the Scarlet Letter is a much better analogy than is holocaust imagery. If you compare child molesters to Jews, you also compare Jews to child-molesters, and they don't deserve that.
Having said that, I'm very much against the idea. A just society must allow people to grow beyond their crimes.
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Not really. The Nazis had several designations. The pink triange, for instance. The only group of people not released from the consentration camps on liberation. They were instead transferred to the custody of the prison system. (unfairly, too)
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 10:35:16 [Permalink]
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Not really. The Nazis had several designations. The pink triange, for instance. The only group of people not released from the consentration camps on liberation. They were instead transferred to the custody of the prison system. (unfairly, too)
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Good point.
Do you think homosexuals should be compared with convicted child molesters or drunk drivers?
I don't. |
| Edited by - Mycroft on 08/08/2007 10:35:55 |
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 10:37:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Yeah Scarlet Letters dont have lobby groups and anti-defimation leagues.
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Is there a Jewish lobby? |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 21:58:14 [Permalink]
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MyCroft wrote: | A just society must allow people to grow beyond their crimes. |
I like this statement very much.
And as much as I am enraged and disgusted by the action of child abuse which is often perpetrated by pedophiles, I also agree with what Kil wrote. Then again, I think we need a wholly different approach to how we deal with all violence crime. Most violent crime is done by people who have all kinds of emotional/psychological problems. One part of the solution is definitely removing them from society at large, but to stop there, and basically just throw them all together in prison culture just doesn't make sense to me. It's similar to putting teenagers in adult prisons; it makes the convicts more screwed up and better criminals, so when they do get out, they are even more dangerous. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 08/08/2007 21:59:31 |
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pthaack
New Member
Canada
1 Post |
Posted - 08/11/2007 : 05:49:45 [Permalink]
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Oklahoma''s plate is green. http://www.15q.net/ok.html Should they avoid going to Ohio or Wisconsin or Alabama?
Ontario is looking at issuing an environmental plate for green cars, with benefits of free parking and HOV lane access. Fear of being labeled a sex-offender in Ohio has nixed the plan.
How would you keep a sex-offender from registering the car under his girlfriend? There will be a market for sex-offenders registering their cars to other people to keep the green plate off their cars. |
If you don't know where you're going, then you don't even have to go.
– Dr. Dennis Waitley |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2007 : 06:06:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by pthaack
Oklahoma''s plate is green. http://www.15q.net/ok.html Should they avoid going to Ohio or Wisconsin or Alabama?
Ontario is looking at issuing an environmental plate for green cars, with benefits of free parking and HOV lane access. Fear of being labeled a sex-offender in Ohio has nixed the plan.
How would you keep a sex-offender from registering the car under his girlfriend? There will be a market for sex-offenders registering their cars to other people to keep the green plate off their cars.
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Welcone to SFN, pthaack!
Good thinking, all of it. I hadn't thought all the implications through that far.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Color-coated license plates; punish w/ humiliation
